Seawolves Fans

Full disclosure: I'm not really a football fan, however I did go to the game this past weekend and enjoyed the experience. But I do think of myself as, in general, a sports fan, and most specifically a college sports fan.

When I moved here about 20 years ago from an area of the country that had rabid college sports fans (because, frankly, there were no other sports options) a colleague told me that the NY metro area has always been a "pro sports town" with little to no interest in college sports.

So I'm just asking the question to those of you who I can tell are much more knowledgeable about sports in the area and with SBU football specifically: Are you fighting a battle (ie, trying to promote and expand SBU football) that cannot be won?

Of course I know anything is possible and maybe enthusiasm can grow over time, but I sometimes wonder if all the promotion and money and quality college sports product in the world will never have much clout in this area. And believe me, I would like to see SBU sports gain popularity, I just wonder if they can.

http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/msg10362/#msg10362

http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/msg10494/#msg10494

The LIRR train package is a good idea. I'd definitely take that and run with it if it's feasible on both sides.

A bigger issue is simply the demographics of the campus. Sure we have a lot of international students who may or may not be ambivalent towards football/athletics, but the bigger issue is our commuter population. They're on campus during the day, but gone during the weekends. That's part of why I think being in a conference like the MAC, or otherwise playing more weeknight games might not be the worst thing in the world. Thursday night games have IIRC been well attended here in the past. It's something to think about which brings me to my next point...

FCS football. Like it or not, for better or for worse. FCS programs in large markets are invisible. If you hope to gain any sort of local fan following in a large city, you need to be FBS and at the top level. It simply is what it is. Look no further than schools like NIU and Georgia State as examples. GSU is on the rise and NIU made a BCS bowl and has a nice fan following despite being in the Chicago market. I'm a broken record on this, but being FBS would go a long way in helping our attendance woes. Combined with the midweek games you see in the MAC, I think it may be more beneficial to us than it is to other MAC schools who have larger resident student populations. Just look at ODU's upset of VA Tech this weekend at home. That never could have happened if they were still in the CAA/FCS. The possibility of home games against Army, Syracuse, BC, Temple, and others is awfully enticing. 

As far as Albany and losing our status, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Albany is several spots below us academically despite being a fellow SUNY research center. They're also behind us in football since it took them a whole decade longer than us to get a new stadium, and several years longer to leave the NEC, add scholarships, and start investing in football. Albany does better on the field and on the court relative to us than I would like, but the academic gulf is large enough that I wouldn't worry. When Albany gains acceptance into the AAU, and surpasses us academically will I start to worry about them. Keep in mind they have to compete with UB and Binghamton for students up-state. SBU is the only show in town for the Tri-State kids who want to stay relatively close. There's advantages in being close to the people.

I honestly don't see FBS on its own as being the attendance solution. Especially nowadays that the FBS has been degraded to "near-FCS" quality and following. With the consolidation of the P5, the rest of the FBS has essentially become the FCS with 25 additional scholarships (except maybe the MW, and the American). The MAC has been suffering from attendance woes for years, the American Athletic has been struggling with attendance here in the Northeast despite a better product. UMass learned the hardway when it rushed reclassification and fell on its face. What I see is a regional environment that has little pulse for college football.

But even with that reality, I still think we should be capable of getting 10k-12k butts in the seat if we market the product right to our students and make it fun for them. There MUST be a real disconnect between administrators and the students when it comes to athletics. I remember back a few years ago when I was a senior (2012) that SBU was a little more flexible on the students allowing them to tailgate, frats brought DJs, some outdoor games, drinking, etc and all of it sudden you had the MAIN parking lot packed. At that point, I thought we had arrived. It was a great scene.

Yet, inexplicably, the following year, the administrators thought it was a great idea to charge over $100 bucks for season gameday parking, to kill the partying, and to end the frat-sponsored tailgating. There went the students. They didn't come back.

...and Stony Brook admins continue making the same mistakes today. Why not allow students to leave and return to the game after halftime? I don't mind if you do that with the adult crowd from the community which may be used to that in other sports environments. But don't do it to the students who want to go out at halftime and eat in the dining halls, sip a few drinks, etc.

The bottom line is that IMHO athletic administrators at SBU have yet to strike the balance between the needs of the student "fan" vs. the needs of the families, alumni, and other community members that attend our games. Both are extremely important and need to be taken care of.

Lastly, I know everyone says that Stony Brook is a commuter school and this and that... that students go away for weekends. But even on the worst weekend I'm absolutely sure that there has to be at least 4 to 5k students across campus. I'm telling you. Only about 50% (probably even less) of residents may go home on weekend. So we still have a solid 5K students to work with and draw them in. The campus being emtpy is a myth... I know it. I lived there for four years and you would always see kids during the weekend in the library, dorms playing videogame, dining halls, quad while there was a game at LaValle. Obviously, campus looks empty because they aren't out and about walking to class so you can't notice them... But they are in campus!

So I'm just asking the question to those of you who I can tell are much more knowledgeable about sports in the area and with SBU football specifically: Are you fighting a battle (ie, trying to promote and expand SBU football) that cannot be won?

On the grand scheme of things the northeast coast is indeed a pro-sports region as whole. The proof is there - Look at Rutgers, Boston College, Connecticut, Temple, and even Syracuse how they struggle to draw 30k per game despite being well known programs.

Now, with that said. I think its completely achievable and doable for Stony Brook to draw 10-15k per game thanks to its student/staff/admin population. I'm not saying its realistic to ever expect Stony Brook to draw 20-25k fans per game (unless conditions change in the region) but 10-15k is completely doable with an honest effort to get everyone to the game. Not just dumping money at it...

We need student surveys asking what they desire from football gamedays and give them what they want.

to me, the issue isnt whether it's a pro sports town (it is), the issue is we struggle to fill stadiums, when not even leveraging our 30k population of students/faculty.

it's a shame, really, all those people in a few square miles that are associated with the U, and we get how many, 2% (assumes 600 total) to LaValle?

NY is very much a pro sports region, but here's the thing. When you have  12 MILLION people in your general market between NYC and long Island, I find it hard to believe you couldn't get 25k to Lavalle for a game against quality teams as an FBS program down the road. That's the vision Heilbron has when they talk about "big time" athletics. The population base is so big, that you really have to be dropping the ball to not at least get close to that. SBU is well positioned to be NY's college team for one simple reason. SBU is the closest, highly regarded, affordable public school for all the residents of NYC and Long Island. All the private schools are too expensive, and NYC residents don't get in-state tuition at Rutgers or UConn. I really think SBU has something here if they play their cards right.

You have to figure into the equation one very important stat SBU has, and that is Ethnicity. SB has a lot of Asians and Middle Eastern students who are here, for one thing, a Degree. The majority could care less about our football, basketball, Lax, sports as a whole. This is a fact and not a racist slur or something else. ( I am NOT a racist by any stretch just stating a fact).. I live in Setauket and have a bunch of Asians families who live near me and whenever I get an opportunity to speaking to some of them I'll bring up the question. Do you like Football or Basketball, and everyone will tell me no. The majority of Asians don't even like sports. Now, how do you explain the non Asian Middle Eastern students who live near SB and are students? I think a lot of those people are studying for their Doctorate degrees and are Doctors already and really don't have time to partake in any sporting event.

If SBU were a Liberal Arts school I think the ratio to students going to sporting events would be much higher. Couple that with NY being a "pro sport" region, hence the small turnout at LaValle stadium. Can that ever be fixed. I doubt it, however. If more and more people shut the TV off on NFL Sunday, like I do, and stick with College sports, then maybe we can get more students and fans to fill the stadium.

Quote from: Chairman of the Board on September 24, 2018, 05:28:11 pm

to me, the issue isnt whether it's a pro sports town (it is), the issue is we struggle to fill stadiums, when not even leveraging our 30k population of students/faculty.

it's a shame, really, all those people in a few square miles that are associated with the U, and we get how many, 2% (assumes 600 total) to LaValle?

NY is very much a pro sports region, but here's the thing. When you have  12 MILLION people in your general market between NYC and long Island, I find it hard to believe you couldn't get 25k to Lavalle for a game against quality teams as an FBS program down the road. That's the vision Heilbron has when they talk about "big time" athletics. The population base is so big, that you really have to be dropping the ball to not at least get close to that. SBU is well positioned to be NY's college team for one simple reason. SBU is the closest, highly regarded, affordable public school for all the residents of NYC and Long Island. All the private schools are too expensive, and NYC residents don't get in-state tuition at Rutgers or UConn. I really think SBU has something here if they play their cards right.

while i completely agree- let's break this down a bit.

unless related, no one is crossing a bridge or taking a ferry to see SB play, not in 2018.  so strike all of CT, NJ, the bronx, manhattan.

brooklyn and queens- not big football fans because there isnt as much football played there.  too many distractions, difficult traffic, distance is ~50 miles which can total 3-4hrs in the car.

are they taking trains?  they should.  i have.  will this be a significant #?  i don't think so.  but would like to see this happen.

that leaves nassau and suffolk.  it can take over an hour to get 20 miles.  sitting on nicolls isnt fun.  parking situation is not optimal.  can watch the game online.  or other games.  NE weather generally degrades in late Oct through november.

the only real answer is to get students to the game.  but they arent on campus.

Thanks for all the discussion and ideas here from you informed folks. As admitted I'm not a rabid football fan, but I do overall enjoy various SBU sports and am also a local community member who would like to see things go well at the university. To add, of course the weather was perfect this past weekend but I have to say the whole "Wolfie Town" (is that what it's called?) seemed like a really fun scene, too. If parents with young kids don't have their day filled with running kids to soccer games or other such sports, that looks like a fun place to be.

>>>>>>>
so that begs the question- should SB (and can SB) prefer student applicants who will contribute to the university's atmosphere?

with the understanding that ALL other things are equal (like grades and qualifications).  tell me in a state of 20m we can't find 500 kids a year who are qualified and care about spirit???  700???
<<<<<<<<

A noble idea, but as a parent who just sent kids through a local (3V) school district and off into college, I had to laugh. That is, if this was an assessment criteria you can bet parents would get wind of it and have all the college prep and tutors they hire to get their kids into the best schools add this to the essay or application! The whole college app process is so cutthroat, filled with lies and deceit...in my humble opinion, of course. 

And simply antidotal information, based on two recent high school graduates in the area and listening in on all the chatter:

Some very high-performing local academic kids went to SBU based on its growing academic reputation and, typically, good financial deal and scholarships offered. Never heard any one of them say anything about SBU sports.

Whereas a number of local kids who were interested in a college sports scene all went elsewhere (Alabama, Texas, Kansas, Syracuse, UCONN...just a few I remember among my kids' peer groups. Even Cortland, which seems to have a reputation as a fun D3 sports school, among other elements of its reputation).

Blatantly obvious, but "SBU" and "Sports" just don't go together for young people. But here's hoping at least that a lot of people come out for the Villanova game. I assume some of you were around and maybe went to the SBU/Villanova hoops game years ago in the old version of the arena, and I remember there being a big crowd for that one.