Author Topic: 2012-2020: Future of SBU Football - Conference Affiliation, FBS Football, etc  (Read 12694 times)

Chairman of the Board

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but.  with a student body in the 20k range, thousands of faculty, and 3m inhabitants in an hour drive, we could fill something.

just query why they dont show.
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Seawolf97

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At best we wind up in the MAC or the AAC .  The administration and Albany does not want us or any SUNY school in a Power Conference  so kiss that goodbye.  We rarely advertise and the local media doesn't cover us very well .  When we are on TV its a backchannel  not a  regional broadcast .   I'm guessing but maybe in the next 5 years we might move up but don't hold your breath.

Hammertime

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At best we wind up in the MAC or the AAC .  The administration and Albany does not want us or any SUNY school in a Power Conference  so kiss that goodbye.  We rarely advertise and the local media doesn't cover us very well .  When we are on TV its a backchannel  not a  regional broadcast .   I'm guessing but maybe in the next 5 years we might move up but don't hold your breath.

I always love your optimism Seawolf. But give me one reason, just one why and how SB can move up in 5,6, or even 7 years from now...

Seawolf97

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My  feeling is we have to keep winning for one thing , keep improving facilities , our other sports have to win their share also such womens lax and baseball as they did in 2012.  The idea is make yourself known around the country as an overall winner. Basketball is big part of the formula.  James Madison is pretty 1 dimensional with football their other sports are average at best. Show up in the FCS playoffs, win in baseball, lax etc .  This was a good year so far with wins in Volleyball and Soccer and I'm sure ladies lax .    Then hope for an invite but winning all around  is going to be the key not just football

VA_Seawolf

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A whole lot of small minded thinking in this thread. Fortunately Heilbron and Stanley along with their predecessors disagree with you, otherwise we'd probably still be in D3.

Being in a power conference, or even an FBS conference may seem like a pipe dream, but as an FCS school, we fit the profile of a power conference school to the T. We're the public flagship institution for the state of New York and unlike the other three campuses, we're actually near the economic and population engine of the state. We're not some directional backup to the backup school that many of the other FCS programs are. I'm from VA and JMU is a fantastic school. I even considered going there, but at the end of the day, it's the kind of place you choose to go when you don't get into UVA or Tech. SBU doesn't have that issue. NY state students WANT to come here. We're the best public option in the state for NYC and Long Island residents. That's 12 million people within an hour of the campus. You can't ignore that.

Academically, I'm not sure you guys realize this, but we're in the AAU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities#Membership

Only the best research schools are in the AAU and you have to be invited in by existing members. Look at those schools gentlemen, you can't keep any better company than that. I'm not going to say we're peers to Berkely, the Ivies, Stanford, Rice, etc. I won't go that far, but when those schools invite you into their club? That means something. Iowa St.? Rutgers? Pittsburgh? Oregon? Maryland? Those are our academic peers and they're damn good schools. Those schools also want to play us in sports which is part of why we're able to get OOC games against schools like Michigan St., Washington, etc.

Of all the public schools in the AAU with football, only two have the sport in the FCS. UC Davis, and us. Buffalo is the only FBS public school in the club that's in a G5 conference. Every single other school;  literally every single one is in a power conference. The only thing stopping us is that unlike the power conference schools that have been around for over 150 years, we've only been around 60, so we're the new kids on the block. We're ascending at an astonishing rate given how young we are as a school. Don't let the current attendance and fan apathy fool you. Institutionally, we're a power school in every way. Enrollment, research, you name it. The athletics just need to catch up which they are. I'd drop the small minded thinking guys. We're not a Boise State who can tear it up on the field for decades but still never sniff a power conference because of their junior college level academics. We're better than that.

Our academics and location are why I think come the next round of realignment in 7-8 years we could get called up to a better conference. University presidents make realignment decisions on who they want to align themselves with, and the upside of an AAU flagship school within an hour of 12 million people makes SBU a risk worth taking. Our floor is higher than Buffalo, because unlike Buffalo, we're not hours away from most of the state in the frigid cold with nothing to do. They're going to be the ones not wanting us to move up. On the recruiting trail for football, the only thing they have over us is they're FBS and we're FCS. We win in pretty much every other category.

In the meantime, keep fielding competitive FCS teams, and really put out a good basketball product. Nothing can put your school on the map faster than good basketball. People still remember those GMU and VCU final four runs and Gonzaga went from a nobody to a well known school thanks to their basketball.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:25:49 pm by VA_Seawolf »
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Hammertime

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VA_SEAWOLF .. I appreciate you putting together that really good synopsis to why you think SB belongs in a power 5 conference. But I have one tiny, little problem that could put the breaks on to this pipe dream. MONEY!!!!!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Just think of the money that is needed to upgrade every single athletic facility SB has.. It would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to bring it up to par with the likes of Michigan, Pitt, Oregon Maryland etc.. Where is that money coming from, NYS?? Coumo would never allow that to happen.. Look what he did with that twenty five million dollars that was earmarked for science, but after that program got squashed SB tried to funnel that into athletics. Big state daddy took it right back... Bottom line is. SB doesnt have the booster, Alumni to invest that kind of money back into athletics to be in par with the big, ACC, Big10 schools.. Mr. James Simons can make that happen with a stroke of his pen, but just like all the other wealthy, non athletic boosters SB has, they could care less about sports!

IFCU would have to be expanded several thousand more seats and that cant be done because of structural reasons. LaValle stadium would have to most likely torn down and rebuilt to around 40,000 seats. What about the baseball field and seating area? Something SB doesnt even have.. etc. etc. etc.......

I can go on and on to why this university will not go into the power conference in my life time. G5?? , maybe. Even that is a far cry in my lifetime for all the reasons I outlined..

Baby steps, lots of athletic money and a history of winning and beating bigger school will eventually get you an invite and a move up into a G5 conference ..

p.s. Warney was the main reason why SB had a hard time playing big school in fear of us beating them.. That came from Pikiel mouth to my ears. I dont think the AAU affiliation mattered at that time... But, what do I know.. I never even step one foot into SB classroom.


ry1nik

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A whole lot of small minded thinking in this thread. Fortunately Heilbron and Stanley along with their predecessors disagree with you, otherwise we'd probably still be in D3.

Being in a power conference, or even an FBS conference may seem like a pipe dream, but as an FCS school, we fit the profile of a power conference school to the T. We're the public flagship institution for the state of New York and unlike the other three campuses, we're actually near the economic and population engine of the state. We're not some directional backup to the backup school that many of the other FCS programs are. I'm from VA and JMU is a fantastic school. I even considered going there, but at the end of the day, it's the kind of place you choose to go when you don't get into UVA or Tech. SBU doesn't have that issue. NY state students WANT to come here. We're the best public option in the state for NYC and Long Island residents. That's 12 million people within an hour of the campus. You can't ignore that.

Academically, I'm not sure you guys realize this, but we're in the AAU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities#Membership

Only the best research schools are in the AAU and you have to be invited in by existing members. Look at those schools gentlemen, you can't keep any better company than that. I'm not going to say we're peers to Berkely, the Ivies, Stanford, Rice, etc. I won't go that far, but when those schools invite you into their club? That means something. Iowa St.? Rutgers? Pittsburgh? Oregon? Maryland? Those are our academic peers and they're damn good schools. Those schools also want to play us in sports which is part of why we're able to get OOC games against schools like Michigan St., Washington, etc.

Of all the public schools in the AAU with football, only two have the sport in the FCS. UC Davis, and us. Buffalo is the only FBS public school in the club that's in a G5 conference. Every single other school;  literally every single one is in a power conference. The only thing stopping us is that unlike the power conference schools that have been around for over 150 years, we've only been around 60, so we're the new kids on the block. We're ascending at an astonishing rate given how young we are as a school. Don't let the current attendance and fan apathy fool you. Institutionally, we're a power school in every way. Enrollment, research, you name it. The athletics just need to catch up which they are. I'd drop the small minded thinking guys. We're not a Boise State who can tear it up on the field for decades but still never sniff a power conference because of their junior college level academics. We're better than that.

Our academics and location are why I think come the next round of realignment in 7-8 years we could get called up to a better conference. University presidents make realignment decisions on who they want to align themselves with, and the upside of an AAU flagship school within an hour of 12 million people makes SBU a risk worth taking. Our floor is higher than Buffalo, because unlike Buffalo, we're not hours away from most of the state in the frigid cold with nothing to do. They're going to be the ones not wanting us to move up. On the recruiting trail for football, the only thing they have over us is they're FBS and we're FCS. We win in pretty much every other category.

In the meantime, keep fielding competitive FCS teams, and really put out a good basketball product. Nothing can put your school on the map faster than good basketball. People still remember those GMU and VCU final four runs and Gonzaga went from a nobody to a well known school thanks to their basketball.

"Nothing can put your school on the map faster than good basketball. People still remember those GMU and VCU final four runs and Gonzaga went from a nobody to a well known school thanks to their basketball. " This statement weakens the case for big-time football and its link to putting a school on the map. GMU, VCU, and Gonzaga do not have football...let alone FBS football.

Athletics exist ultimately to support the academic mission and student experience. Most people would rather have a degree from MIT or Harvard (small athletic profile) than U. of Georgia or Alabama (large profile). Since SBU is already in the AAU, no need to connect AAU membership with the athletic profile of other AAU schools to try and make a case for FBS football. SBU is already in the AAU group.

Chairman of the Board

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A whole lot of small minded thinking in this thread. Fortunately Heilbron and Stanley along with their predecessors disagree with you, otherwise we'd probably still be in D3.

Being in a power conference, or even an FBS conference may seem like a pipe dream, but as an FCS school, we fit the profile of a power conference school to the T. We're the public flagship institution for the state of New York and unlike the other three campuses, we're actually near the economic and population engine of the state. We're not some directional backup to the backup school that many of the other FCS programs are. I'm from VA and JMU is a fantastic school. I even considered going there, but at the end of the day, it's the kind of place you choose to go when you don't get into UVA or Tech. SBU doesn't have that issue. NY state students WANT to come here. We're the best public option in the state for NYC and Long Island residents. That's 12 million people within an hour of the campus. You can't ignore that.

Academically, I'm not sure you guys realize this, but we're in the AAU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities#Membership

Only the best research schools are in the AAU and you have to be invited in by existing members. Look at those schools gentlemen, you can't keep any better company than that. I'm not going to say we're peers to Berkely, the Ivies, Stanford, Rice, etc. I won't go that far, but when those schools invite you into their club? That means something. Iowa St.? Rutgers? Pittsburgh? Oregon? Maryland? Those are our academic peers and they're damn good schools. Those schools also want to play us in sports which is part of why we're able to get OOC games against schools like Michigan St., Washington, etc.

Of all the public schools in the AAU with football, only two have the sport in the FCS. UC Davis, and us. Buffalo is the only FBS public school in the club that's in a G5 conference. Every single other school;  literally every single one is in a power conference. The only thing stopping us is that unlike the power conference schools that have been around for over 150 years, we've only been around 60, so we're the new kids on the block. We're ascending at an astonishing rate given how young we are as a school. Don't let the current attendance and fan apathy fool you. Institutionally, we're a power school in every way. Enrollment, research, you name it. The athletics just need to catch up which they are. I'd drop the small minded thinking guys. We're not a Boise State who can tear it up on the field for decades but still never sniff a power conference because of their junior college level academics. We're better than that.

Our academics and location are why I think come the next round of realignment in 7-8 years we could get called up to a better conference. University presidents make realignment decisions on who they want to align themselves with, and the upside of an AAU flagship school within an hour of 12 million people makes SBU a risk worth taking. Our floor is higher than Buffalo, because unlike Buffalo, we're not hours away from most of the state in the frigid cold with nothing to do. They're going to be the ones not wanting us to move up. On the recruiting trail for football, the only thing they have over us is they're FBS and we're FCS. We win in pretty much every other category.

In the meantime, keep fielding competitive FCS teams, and really put out a good basketball product. Nothing can put your school on the map faster than good basketball. People still remember those GMU and VCU final four runs and Gonzaga went from a nobody to a well known school thanks to their basketball.


with all that said though (and i agree with it), why can't we get regular attendance. 

another thing ill add is that you point out the academic accolades.  and those are great.  and i hate that college sports have become infected with money.  but the plain fact is that they are money machines.  so that takes a back seat to ticket sales, TV deals, merchandise, concessions, media coverage, etc.  What im saying is that kids come to SB for academics and that's great, but we are missing the athletics powerhouse-ness. 

i turn on local tv from time to time.  and what do they broadcast?  softball, european soccer, NFL reruns, etc.  Because that's what locals want to watch.  not SB Lacrosse.  not fordham basketball.  not hofstra baseball. 

how many locals even tune in to st johns bball???  over a UNC game?  michigan on a winter saturday afternoon???  ive been to ONE game at carnesecca in 37 years, and that's because they were playing SB.  and im a college hoops fanatic. 

if that's what stations air on TV, it's reflective of how few attend our games.

i guess what im saying is- asses in seats drives the process, so i am fooled by attendance.

and there's no attendance because there's no atmosphere.

if there was stuff to do, kids would stick around.  but they dont.

maybe im wrong but if im an FBS conference, the first thing i look at is attendance, fan support, revenues, record, etc.  we just dont pass the test.

apathy is a bigger problem for the U and we have a whole separate thread on that.

*   *   *

im not saying we wont get there.  i just dont know how soon, or whether we can really fill a stadium, or ever create the type of atmosphere that would, say, attract Gameday.  over/under, ill say 2035 and maybe even take the over.  GO SB
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VA_Seawolf

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Hammertime, money wouldn't be an issue due in large part to the media contracts of these bigger conferences. The Big Ten TV deal will pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $50M per school next year. That's an unreal amount of money. Granted, I don't think the money will be quite that high in the future, but there will always be adequate money from the TV partners of power conferences to get the media rights for those leagues.

You also assume I'm talking about moving to the Big Ten or ACC tomorrow. That's not what I mean. In 50 years, I do believe we could get there and by that point the alumni, donor, and fanbases will be at a point to support inclusion into the power structure. We're a good school that will be at 30k enrollment in the not too distant future. It's not at all unreasonable to think we could be in a power conference 50 years down the road for the reasons I stated. Again, the school is only 60 years old right now.

If you want to talk short term, (the next 8 years) I believe we could move into the MAC or AAC today with our current facilities. All we'd need is a moderate expansion of the stadium and we're fine. You act like we're decades away from being FBS when really all it takes is for SH's phone to ring. Coastal and Liberty are FBS today and we frequently laid the beatdown on both of them in the Big South. Coastal's stadium was smaller than ours when they got the invite. The bar is lower than you think. There's going to be a BIG reshuffling of conferences come the middle of the next decade and I anticipate SBU will get an FBS invite somewhere in the middle of all that chaos.



"Nothing can put your school on the map faster than good basketball. People still remember those GMU and VCU final four runs and Gonzaga went from a nobody to a well known school thanks to their basketball. " This statement weakens the case for big-time football and its link to putting a school on the map. GMU, VCU, and Gonzaga do not have football...let alone FBS football.

Athletics exist ultimately to support the academic mission and student experience. Most people would rather have a degree from MIT or Harvard (small athletic profile) than U. of Georgia or Alabama (large profile). Since SBU is already in the AAU, no need to connect AAU membership with the athletic profile of other AAU schools to try and make a case for FBS football. SBU is already in the AAU group.

No, it doesn't weaken it at all. If you want to get on the map quickly and get a bunch of buzz around your school and programs, all you need is a deep run in the NCAA tournament. The momentum of that alone could bring an FBS invite along with it. Basketball can get you attention quickly, but if you want to sustain that and become a household name, football is key. Football drives the realignment and media bus. Basketball is our best bet to make a splash in the short term simply because nobody gives a damn about FCS football and the barriers to upgrading Olympic sports/basketball are much lower. Getting killed by Kentucky brought us more publicity than anything we've ever done in football. People just don't care about the FCS.


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Quote
There's going to be a BIG reshuffling of conferences come the middle of the next decade and I anticipate SBU will get an FBS invite somewhere in the middle of all that chaos.

just curious for more color on this, as it's intriguing.  what are you basing this on and thanks for your thoughts.
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VA_Seawolf

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There's going to be a BIG reshuffling of conferences come the middle of the next decade and I anticipate SBU will get an FBS invite somewhere in the middle of all that chaos.

just curious for more color on this, as it's intriguing.  what are you basing this on and thanks for your thoughts.

Schools in the Big 12, Oklahoma specifically aren't very happy with the league and could be looking elsewhere towards another conference once the GOR for the Big 12 expires in 2025. Big Ten, SEC, and Pac 12 could all be destinations. Oklahoma was heavily in favor of the Big 12 expanding last year, but the league decided against it:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/22/16350026/bob-bowlsby-big-12-commissioner-contract

There's also the issue of CUSA, which overexpanded in 2013 taking mediocre schools only because they were in big media markets having their TV revenue drop from ~2M per school per year to just 200k per year per school. That small amount of TV money, when combined with all the travel they have to do in that league poses a huge problem for CUSA that they'll have to address. A split or some kind of reshuffling with the Sun Belt may happen down the road.
http://www.sunherald.com/sports/college/conference-usa/university-of-southern-mississippi/article83199052.html

Then there's always the spectre of Big East expansion. Potentially bringing Uconn back into the fold.
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-jacobs-column-uconn-big-east-0219-20170218-column.html

Any one of these events could have a trickle down effect through all of the conferences. Realignment never happens in a vacuum. The biggest catalyst is likely to be anything involving the Big 12, and then the moves would happen from there. There could be a lot of movement like in the great realignment of 2010-13, and this time SBU will hopefully be in prime position to claim a spot with our great academics, competitive programs and great facilities. 

There's also the possibility of the CAA football schools moving to FBS as independents, then forming a new conference later. OR that league forming as a part of the eastern split of CUSA. Liberty going to FBS as independent has opened the door for other schools to do the same.
https://pilotonline.com/sports/columnist/harry-minium/minium-ncaa-exception-for-liberty-was-right-call-but-could/article_cccaf7d1-88de-5c93-bf5d-1943f64e9aaa.html

Interesting times are ahead! I also wouldn't be too shocked if a move to the A10 or CAA happened for us before 2025. I used to be vehemently anti CAA calling it a lateral move, but I'm starting to reconsider my stance on that one.

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thanks!  makes sense.
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