Author Topic: Game 12: at Providence 12/17  (Read 247 times)

Moveitfred

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2017, 08:43:13 am »
Would be nice for SBU to get games like this, but I'd say that's about the best you can expect from the team right now. They have a habit of being pretty good and poised for 30 mins against more talented teams, and they just don't seem to have the leadership from anyone at the moment to handle things when the noose tightens (especially on the road).

One of those games where if beforehand someone said to an SBU fan, You take this game coming down to the final possession? And most of us would reply, Heck yes. Then you see the game and think, Ugh, they should have won that one...

Thing is, Providence down a few players is still more athletic/talented than SBU. End of the day, those teams usually win.

PS, nice win by Rutgers yesterday. Maybe they're still feeling good going into the sure win and SBU catches them napping. Probably not, but on to the next one.

I'd agree with this completely had this been Providence's first team. If they have all of those guys, they're quite likely undefeated and/or ranked coming into today. A performance like that against a healthy team I'd be fine with. What gets me though is that we had this colossal meltdown against what was effectively their 2nd string. That's why I'm upset beyond the usual "we blew it in the 4th quarter again" type of game.

I think we'll do just fine come AE play though and in a year or two if we keep scheduling like this, I'd expect we'll start winning these kinds of games. I'll still take a loss in a game like today's though over beating up on SWAC and D2 teams in the non-conference.

Yeah, I get it. I'd still argue that Providence down a few players is still better than SBU in terms of talent and athleticism. I think back, too, to what was undoubtedly the best team in SBU history. How many times did we see that team have trouble under pressure with the clock ticking down. Errant passes, just in general the wheels coming off. I can think of at least a couple of big games.

I think so much of all the complaints this year circle back to this: Who can you realistically get to come play at SBU in the AE? Bottom line, the "better" players simply go elsewhere...to Providence and all the "better" basketball programs. You can recruit your legs and brain off (and I think Boals and Pikiell both do/did good jobs) and once in a lifetime you might get lucky, but usually you just get those players left after the big boys take the most talented.

After that, you do what you can, but there is only so much magic left in the box to make things better with practice and experience. Again, game like that maybe you get lucky (Sekunda hits a couple more threes, a couple of guys don't throw the ball into the front row in the last few minutes), but usually not.

That said, you're right. AE levels the playing field when the time comes. Those final 3 playoff games are all that really matter. This SBU group still has a lot of weapons within the context of AE play. So do a lot of AE teams. Obvious, I know, but the AE always seems to come down to whoever is hot in March, which could be any team.

Hammertime

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2017, 08:51:25 am »
Would be nice for SBU to get games like this, but I'd say that's about the best you can expect from the team right now. They have a habit of being pretty good and poised for 30 mins against more talented teams, and they just don't seem to have the leadership from anyone at the moment to handle things when the noose tightens (especially on the road).

One of those games where if beforehand someone said to an SBU fan, You take this game coming down to the final possession? And most of us would reply, Heck yes. Then you see the game and think, Ugh, they should have won that one...

Thing is, Providence down a few players is still more athletic/talented than SBU. End of the day, those teams usually win.

PS, nice win by Rutgers yesterday. Maybe they're still feeling good going into the sure win and SBU catches them napping. Probably not, but on to the next one.

I'd agree with this completely had this been Providence's first team. If they have all of those guys, they're quite likely undefeated and/or ranked coming into today. A performance like that against a healthy team I'd be fine with. What gets me though is that we had this colossal meltdown against what was effectively their 2nd string. That's why I'm upset beyond the usual "we blew it in the 4th quarter again" type of game.

I think we'll do just fine come AE play though and in a year or two if we keep scheduling like this, I'd expect we'll start winning these kinds of games. I'll still take a loss in a game like today's though over beating up on SWAC and D2 teams in the non-conference.

Yeah, I get it. I'd still argue that Providence down a few players is still better than SBU in terms of talent and athleticism. I think back, too, to what was undoubtedly the best team in SBU history. How many times did we see that team have trouble under pressure with the clock ticking down. Errant passes, just in general the wheels coming off. I can think of at least a couple of big games.

I think so much of all the complaints this year circle back to this: Who can you realistically get to come play at SBU in the AE? Bottom line, the "better" players simply go elsewhere...to Providence and all the "better" basketball programs. You can recruit your legs and brain off (and I think Boals and Pikiell both do/did good jobs) and once in a lifetime you might get lucky, but usually you just get those players left after the big boys take the most talented.

After that, you do what you can, but there is only so much magic left in the box to make things better with practice and experience. Again, game like that maybe you get lucky (Sekunda hits a couple more threes, a couple of guys don't throw the ball into the front row in the last few minutes), but usually not.

That said, you're right. AE levels the playing field when the time comes. Those final 3 playoff games are all that really matter. This SBU group still has a lot of weapons within the context of AE play. So do a lot of AE teams. Obvious, I know, but the AE always seems to come down to whoever is hot in March, which could be any team.

You are correct, Movietfred. The only way to garnish higher caliber players is to move into a stronger conference. Mac or American for all sports would be a logical fit for SB.. But, we would have to be invited in. Maybe A10 for BB like Rhode Island is in....

In order to be invited in SB would have to meet some big criteria . Attendance and seating capacity for starters.  I

I think we talked about this topic in the past, and COB would probably do a better job with conference requirements then I could..

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2017, 10:02:33 am »
actually i think you give me too much credit... i dont know that stuff that well.

what i do know is if we hit a foul shot or two, we might be in this game!
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VA_Seawolf

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2017, 10:26:32 am »
The MAC would be a likely landing spot if we went FBS, but other than Buffalo, and whoever else is hot in the league that year, I don't have an interest in playing the MAC schools in football. Outside of football it'd be the same story, though I guess the MAC would be a slight upgrade in basketball and worth it if we had FBS ball and could get regional opponents at Lavalle? I'm not sure. I'd love FBS football, but until we can get the attendance up, it's likely not worth discussing all that much.

The American is off the table for now. They're not taking an FCS school. Long term we could wind up there, but it's not realistic at the moment.

I've long talked about the A10 as a good landing spot and warned about what may happen if we took the CAA all-sports invite, but the A10 is in serious danger of being a one-bid league this year as well. I've always said if we moved, we'd need to move to a multi-bid conference. We gain nothing by moving laterally to another one-bid league as it just makes competition for that auto-bid harder. If the CAA becomes a multi-bid conference with us in it, I'd be happy to consider the move. The AE was 28th or 29th out of 32 conferences in basketball RPI right now, which is pathetic. On paper this league should be stronger than it is. State flagship schools in the northeast can do better than this. Assuming JMU is out the door in the near future, could that league backfill with us and Albany? It's a possibility.

What Mark Few has accomplished at Gonzaga shows that with the right coach, you can develop an elite program outside of a power conference. With the schedule we had this year, if we won some of these games? Uconn, Michigan St., yesterday's game, etc. and build that resume up, we could be that kind of program that's in the tournament every year despite being in a weaker conference. We wouldn't need to have the ball bounce our way every March to have a chance. Just have to win those games and develop some kind of recruiting pipeline. Sell the school, not the conference. I think our new tougher scheduling model is the first step in that direction.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:28:54 am by VA_Seawolf »

Checkmate

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 10:33:15 am »
Tough one to swallow; we might lead the country in moral victories. It would have been nice to have gotten one of these scalps, particularly UConn or Providence just as something to hang our hat on regionally. Either would certainly resonate more with boosters, fans, recruits, etc. And if we got two of them? Then we're being discussed like Monmouth has been the past couple years small school but with some teeth.

Just some costly errors down the stretch in yesterday's game. It unraveled quickly once they hit us with the press. I expect we'll see a lot of that this year; it was useless against Woodhouse but not this year.

Man, if Akwasi had squeezed that rebound late, we'd have been down one with the final shot. Instead, a steal and a Sekunda foul (on a great effort play mind you). A real nice tip-in by Ty on the Cornish miss to tie it though. Ty's peaks and valleys are unlike any player I can think of in the past.

COB, we actually did make our free throws in this one! 6 for 8! But they were 18 for 25. That disparity is a product of our lack of inside presence and inability to get to the rack outside of Cornish. The kid Ashton-Langford is going to be really good for PC the next three years he penetrated with ease and filled in nicely for Cartwright.

Akwasi up to .432 from three, and Sekunda's at .500. Two big weapons who we need to feed.

On another topic, we are currently fifth in the America East in attendance.

Vermont 2,814
Binghamton 2,506
Albany 2,462
Hartford 1,466
Stony Brook 1,440

That's abysmal, guys. Last year, we finished at 3,221 per game, or more than double what we're doing now. I know the students will come out for the conference games, but any explanation that you can think of otherwise?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:53:35 am by Checkmate »
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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2017, 10:47:45 am »
i mustve read the boxscore wrong on big east livestats.  now that i check the SB boxscore, yes you are correct. 

since you brought it up- in a 2 point loss, yes id love to not miss seventeen shots from behind the arc.  i'd take two of those back for more high % shots and like my chances.

for attendance, sure there's weather, student disaffection, the team is struggling, etc. 

we've built the arena; we've got the schedule; we've got the coach; some of the players; but it just aint happening.  you'll only get so many from the local towns, and students either arent on campus or just have too many distractions.
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Hammertime

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2017, 11:24:54 am »
Tough one to swallow; we might lead the country in moral victories. It would have been nice to have gotten one of these scalps, particularly UConn or Providence just as something to hang our hat on regionally. Either would certainly resonate more with boosters, fans, recruits, etc. And if we got two of them? Then we're being discussed like Monmouth has been the past couple years small school but with some teeth.

Just some costly errors down the stretch in yesterday's game. It unraveled quickly once they hit us with the press. I expect we'll see a lot of that this year; it was useless against Woodhouse but not this year.

Man, if Akwasi had squeezed that rebound late, we'd have been down one with the final shot. Instead, a steal and a Sekunda foul (on a great effort play mind you). A real nice tip-in by Ty on the Cornish miss to tie it though. Ty's peaks and valleys are unlike any player I can think of in the past.

COB, we actually did make our free throws in this one! 6 for 8! But they were 18 for 25. That disparity is a product of our lack of inside presence and inability to get to the rack outside of Cornish. The kid Ashton-Langford is going to be really good for PC the next three years he penetrated with ease and filled in nicely for Cartwright.

Akwasi up to .432 from three, and Sekunda's at .500. Two big weapons who we need to feed.

On another topic, we are currently fifth in the America East in attendance.

Vermont 2,814
Binghamton 2,506
Albany 2,462
Hartford 1,466
Stony Brook 1,440

That's abysmal, guys. Last year, we finished at 3,221 per game, or more than double what we're doing now. I know the students will come out for the conference games, but any explanation that you can think of otherwise?

Just like football. You win games and fans will show up. SBB is down mainly because we lost Pikiel and Warney.. But start winning games again and that will change..

Moveitfred

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2017, 01:03:42 pm »

On another topic, we are currently fifth in the America East in attendance.

Vermont 2,814
Binghamton 2,506
Albany 2,462
Hartford 1,466
Stony Brook 1,440

That's abysmal, guys. Last year, we finished at 3,221 per game, or more than double what we're doing now. I know the students will come out for the conference games, but any explanation that you can think of otherwise?

Yikes, I knew things were sleepy this year but would not have guessed fifth. Would have thought the arena alone, no matter the team/record, would draw more in comparison. I have no hard evidence other than impressions, but probably like a lot of you I know a few other season ticket holders. Some are neighbors, and there's not much talk about basketball this year. Eh, they go if they're free, otherwise the seats sit empty. Something to do if you've got nothing else to do this year, I'm afraid.

There is also a component for potential growth of being "the only game in town," which SBU is not and will never be. Like Gonzaga. I've been to Spokane a couple of times and went to one Gonzaga game there years ago. Spokane is in the middle of NOwhere! So you get everyone coming out for games, generally. This is a very dated reference that I know won't be familiar, but way back in a previous life there was a similar situation at Fresno State in CA in the 1980's. That city, those people, also in the middle of nowhere, where crazy for their Bulldogs. It was a terrible place to play, as the entire town of farmers got drunk, rowdy, and packed the arena for every game.

Too much else to do here, including everything in NYC and your vast array of cable/streaming options from the comfort of your warm home. Tough nut to crack, no matter the facilities and how much money you pour in.

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2017, 03:14:33 pm »
All good points. Though I don't think we can cite the schedule as a reason we should be drawing more since most of these games are on the road. I'd have no problem signing two for one deals like we did to get these other teams to come to our arena. The Maryland game wasn't even played on campus but at Nassau. Hofstra was the only game I really expected a packed house for, so to not see that is disappointing. 

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2017, 03:33:35 pm »
i think we keep avoiding the issue.

if IFCU holds over 4k, and we somehow get two THOUSAND locals to sit in traffic (sometimes on a weeknight) in and out of campus, we are still HALF full.

or, we can leverage the 25k student body, a chunk of which lives on campus.  this is what successful programs do.

which begs the question.  why cannot we get two thousand students (that's 8%, or 1 of every 12.5) out to a saturday game?

because students arent going to drive from the bronx, or ride the train from queens, just to go to a college basketball game.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 03:38:57 pm by Chairman of the Board »
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Moveitfred

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Re: Game 12: at Providence 12/17
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2017, 04:14:12 pm »
Maybe UVM's got the right idea with their little jr high gym--keep it small and packed rather than the "build it and they will come" ****. I certainly have no idea, and I can tell a lot of you have a much better pulse on the campus and students. I just happened to play some ball in a previous life, just happen to live 5 mins down the road, so I go to games because I actually like watching college basketball. To get students to come or the casual nearby resident? Boy, I have no clue other than, I suppose, there is a natural bump if the team seems poised for a real shot at the NCAAs.

Of course SBU is not alone when you see all the mostly empty arenas around the country, people sitting there glued to their phones while the game is going on...

Like Rodney Dangerfield said: "When I was a kid I got no respect. When my parents got divorced there was a custody fight over me... and no one showed up."