Author Topic: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College  (Read 992 times)

risch

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 05:31:33 am »
Say what you want, ecasado, i know i'll see you there on saturday  :P

ry1nik

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2011, 07:40:54 am »
Your optimism is admirable sbufan, but when the hope is for doing okay in a conference that is rated #30 of 33, it's not setting the bar very high. Maybe moving to the CAA is the answer. I continue to think that the current coaching staff has been overrated.

Check out the link below. It's from a few seasons ago and SB's OOC schedule has stepped up, but I'm not feeling like there's been a whole lot of overall prgress in this program compared to when this was written.

http://www.basketballforum.com/america-east-conference/419616-pikiel-sandbagger.html

Redwyn

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2011, 11:26:04 am »
Your optimism is admirable sbufan, but when the hope is for doing okay in a conference that is rated #30 of 33, it's not setting the bar very high. Maybe moving to the CAA is the answer. I continue to think that the current coaching staff has been overrated.

Check out the link below. It's from a few seasons ago and SB's OOC schedule has stepped up, but I'm not feeling like there's been a whole lot of overall prgress in this program compared to when this was written.

http://www.basketballforum.com/america-east-conference/419616-pikiel-sandbagger.html

Right, so your angst and criticism is assuming many things (and when you assume, you make an ass out of me and you)

1. Pikiell has any sort of control over the RPI of the teams he schedules (RPI of course being the RPI of the team from the season BEFORE he plays them. Coaches can guess a team's trend, but look at Indiana....did anyone see them undefeated with a win over Kentucky?)

Answer - WRONG: Pikiell is at the mercy of the America East Conference in his scheduling decisions. The conference ADs all voted to enact very strict scheduling mandates throughout the conference years ago, at the near unanimous opposition of the coaches (who can't vote). These mandates dealt with the RPI distribution of any member's opponents. These were DISASTEROUS. The conference got TOASTED, and the total conference ranking fell from 18 in 05 to 28 now (we passed the Southland). Now, also remember that last year we ended ranked #29, so this is technically an "up" year for us. This schedule mandate has now been revoked, and starting next season I have it on good authority that we'll be seeing some awesome matchups. 

But to shut down that link - IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR PIKIELL TO HAVE SANDBAGGED HIS SCHEDULE ANY MORE OR LESS THAN ANY AEC MEMBER.

2. Coaching staff is overrated - WRONG: Coaches can't make players hit shots. Dougher has been badly streaky throughout his SBU career. His numbers are strong only because he puts up this many shots. In all - you cannot put up 8/20 shooting and expect to win the game, ever. This team reminds me a TON of the team that won the regular season champ two years ago. And guess what? We lost to a miserable St. Peter's team at home. Our OOC has always been tough, and frankly that's because we don't have a lot of motivation to do well in it. It will NEVER yield an at-large bid, so frankly wouldn't you prefer they optimize their style of play for Vermont or BU compared to BC?

Do I wish we could compete better OOC? Sure. Talent next year seems to indicate that we'll be changing our program's dynamic and becoming what should be a LOT more intimidating to outside programs (for example, our average height in our starting lineup should hover around 6'5" with the additions of Scott King and Warney, taller if Eric McAllister makes the starting lineup in the place of Joyner). But I think it'd be a consensus in out league that the emphasis should be on conference wins, not OOC.

3. Moving to the CAA would improve things? WHAAAAAA? Dude, have you looked at the standings? The CAA is ridiculously better than the AEC in basketball, and it has NOTHING to do with any member located north of Virginia. EVERY AEC exile has spent their ENTIRE time post-transition in the cellar. The best northern member record atm is Delaware at 4-4 (1-0) with a win over Drexel. The only teams in the CAA with above .500 records right now are located south of the Mason Dixon line.

Do I think the CAA should be our ultimate location? Yes. However, for us to be competitive there we must learn the lesson all the other AEC exiles learned - just because you were offered the change doesn't mean it's the right time to make it. We have a TON of growth left, and must improve everything about our program in order to be successful in the CAA.


sbufan

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 11:56:41 am »
Kenpom ranks us ahead of everyone else in the AE. We've played five road games against teams that range from good to great, and came up short in all of them. It's hard to win on the road in college basketball (I just read that the home team wins 2/3 of the time) and none of these games were gimmes. Other than Indiana, we hung around in each game and made the teams play for 40 minutes. Our two D1 games at home haven't been close, and the Columbia team some people were saying "might be the worst team in the country" is probably the second best win our conference has.

seawolf80

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 12:09:30 pm »
I am as discouraged as everyone else with the start to this season.
However, this is our team and we need to continue to support them.
They are struggling right now, but we need to keep the faith that once
in conference, we will be OK.
I reject the premise they are not giving effort. I think we should know the
coaches will not accept that. Execution is poor right now.

ecasadoSBU

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 12:10:20 pm »
I take back what I said for the most part. I was just PIS*ED OFF! I hate watching National televised games go bad like last night
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Redwyn

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2011, 12:20:44 pm »
Kenpom ranks us ahead of everyone else in the AE. We've played five road games against teams that range from good to great, and came up short in all of them. It's hard to win on the road in college basketball (I just read that the home team wins 2/3 of the time) and none of these games were gimmes. Other than Indiana, we hung around in each game and made the teams play for 40 minutes. Our two D1 games at home haven't been close, and the Columbia team some people were saying "might be the worst team in the country" is probably the second best win our conference has.

Agreed.

New post - http://www.unrankedae.com/2011/12/12/2630370/why-there-should-be-no-panic-in-seawolf-country

seawolfemeritus

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2011, 01:23:47 pm »
Agree completely with Seawolf80. Execution, chemistry, and a tough opening schedule are primary problems. Reading the Boston papers today we unfortunately got BC's best game this year. Still could/should have been a win. Was very surprised by ecasado comments but did not respond as they were fueled by emotion...and he deserves a pass because he is clearly a loyal supporter.

Also agree with some of Redwyn comments with exception of Dougher's numbers being strong because he "puts up this many shots." What do you think went on at halftime? Was it a coincidence that after an awful 0-5 1st half (along with everybody else) that he shot it 15 times (8-15) in the second half? Or do you think Pikiell challenged somebody/anybody to be a force in the 2nd half? Yesterday's 20 shots was an aberration as he's averaging under 12 shots per game...same as last year. But as has been stated before he needs another shooter/scorer as he's not as effective when he's the guy defenses are game planning for.  I still think Lenny will snap out of it, and would love to see Bracey start to come around...either of those things would be a big help. BTW Redwyn, while typing this I read your Unranked piece...very well done.

I'll be the first to admit some disappointment, mostly due to high expectations. But it's all about conference play and the conference tournament...and I continue to believe that we will be right there competing at the top.

ry1nik

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2011, 01:35:32 pm »
I don't buy that "it's all about the conference schedule." Simply making the tournament as a 16 seed is no more than a consolation prize for an average team.  Binghamton and UMBC both made the tournament a few years ago...Albany made it twice, and it didn't do jack for their programs. OOC games are just as important towards a successful program for the long term.

seawolf80

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2011, 03:51:13 pm »
As far as making the tournament as a low seed not being enough, remember we have never gone to the tournament as a D1 program. Making the field is the first step. We need only look back a couple of weeks
to the football team and the excitement around the program when they qualified. Having tasted that, now the
football program ( and it's supporters ) will want more.
I suspect we should aim for that first step as an accomplishment before getting ahead of ourselves.
And to do that, we need to have more success within the conference than may be obtained in the OC
portion of the schedule.

Quickdraw62

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2011, 05:33:15 pm »
As far as making the tournament as a low seed not being enough, remember we have never gone to the tournament as a D1 program. Making the field is the first step. We need only look back a couple of weeks
to the football team and the excitement around the program when they qualified. Having tasted that, now the
football program ( and it's supporters ) will want more.
I suspect we should aim for that first step as an accomplishment before getting ahead of ourselves.
And to do that, we need to have more success within the conference than may be obtained in the OC
portion of the schedule.

Wow, love the emotion from you guys, especially as an outsider looking in.  As for my two cents:  There is no way to sugarcoat what happened in your game against BC; the first half was as bad as a team can play!  That being said, clearly the 2nd half you showed more of what you can play like, as many of the same shots that didn't go in during the first half went down in the second half.  Sunday you had virtually no production from your frontcourt players, as Rapier (your best scoring big this year) was clearly not himself.  Joyner struggled with the size of Clifford, and Brenton was non-existent on offense.  It's virtually impossible to win without balance, and you had none Sunday.  My issue is more with the quick shots, and lack of penetration.  The former I'm sure will be addressed by your coaches, and the latter may have more to do with the current skill sets of your guards.  You didn't shoot a FT in the first half, and you did NOT attack the basket.  Also, you had 0 fast break points, which means you are trying to score in a halfcourt setting every time down....very hard to do!  Couple all that with BC playing very well (they were there for the taking early with all the turnovers, but you didn't put them away), and once their 3's started falling it was all over.  From an outsiders perspective, I didn't see any quit in the team in the 2nd half, although the late tech's were no doubt due to frustration (shouldn't happen, especially from a Sr. like Rapier).  I'm very interested to see how the effort is Saturday at the Garden, as Rutgers is very talented, but also very young and undisciplined.  A strong start by you will have them pressing, but if they start well, it will snowball quickly.  Better patience in the half-court offense, more attacking the basket, and at least an attempt to push the tempo will help, in my humble opinion.  Needless to say, defense has to be there for a team that struggles to score, and this team is struggling to score!

Seawolf97

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2011, 09:33:41 pm »
Redwyn and some others are right  about   the AEC and the Big South for that matter. They are both   1 bid conferences  so winning all your ooc games  does you little good in conference play if you lose.  I f we go out and win 12-13 AEC games after January and win the tourney we are in the NCAA or worst case win the regular season title  and we go back to the NIT -still not bad. I am concerned we are  going to repeat out 15% shooting Saturday  afternoon and that would be a disaster PR wise and leave us 3-6 . If we come out like we played in the 2nd half at BC  we could pick up a nice win.  Lets see which team shows up.

ry1nik

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2011, 07:30:43 am »
Quickdraw, you say you're an "outsider looking in," but you make excellent contributions to this forum. Maybe I missed something, but who exactly is "your team"?

Quickdraw62

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2011, 12:10:52 pm »
Quickdraw, you say you're an "outsider looking in," but you make excellent contributions to this forum. Maybe I missed something, but who exactly is "your team"?

Really don't have a "team", just a huge hoops fan.  However, I live in Southern New Jersey (Philly area) so I follow the Big 5 (and Drexel) in college for the most part.  I see a ton of high school games in Philly/S. Jersey, and noticed that a lot of local kids have been going to the America East Conference.  I've seen most of them either in AAU and/or high school, so I try and keep up.  Just about every player from Philly/South Jersey that is in the AE I've seen play so that keeps me interested, and specifically, I've seen most of the 2012 (as well as some of the 2011's) recruits in the AE many times (including Watson, Warney, Puriefoy, Fitzpatrick, Garner, Morgan, etc.)....I plan on seeing Warney and Puriefoy multiple times this season, and will try and give updates...I saw a lot of Chris Santo's games in high school (Frosh at Vermont), so I watch their games when I can, and I've caught a couple of yours as well obviously.

ecasadoSBU

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Re: 2011/12: Game 8 Stony Brook @ Boston College
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2011, 12:23:11 pm »
That is awesome Quickdraw! Thats a lot of basketball you follow right there! Its nice having you around this board!
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