Author Topic: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News  (Read 14211 times)

OldSeawolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 996
  • Location: Suffolk County, NY
    • View Profile
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #495 on: May 07, 2018, 05:28:31 pm »
Pardon my ignorance here, but how are you ranked # 1 in the official national poll all year, going undefeated, and come out with a #5 seed nationally in the playoffs?   Makes zero sense at all.  If they were undefeated all season, but ranked #5 nationally due to strength of schedule, that would be understandable.  But this?  Who are these morons who put the seedings together?

On a positive note, if I'm Stony Brook, I'm pissed as all hell, and I would use this to fuel motivation throughout the tournament.  Lots of pressure being # 1 and going undefeated heading into a Tournament, but to be slapped and reduced to a # 5 after the historic season they've had.....well, that might be ingredient needed to forget the pressure of being # 1 all year, and kick everyone's ass in the Tournament.

Good luck ladies; make SBU proud!
How old a Seawolf am I? I followed them during their Final 4 DIII hoops run in 1977-78 (they were called the Patriots then)

Chairman of the Board

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Location: New York, NY
    • View Profile
    • SB Lacrosse Alumni Org
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #496 on: May 07, 2018, 05:41:14 pm »
see the link i posted above about the human element.  the cmte admits they arent necessarily allowed to "eyeball" the selections.  and the polls arent necessarily factored in.  the polls are what the pollsters think are the rankings.  the RPI is done by CPU and that's what (mostly) drives the seedings.

that, and other factors.  for example- see geography.  see the men's side where bobby mo was TEN slots of RPI in front of richmond, and yet bobby mo gets the play in game.  why?  there's a 400 mile rule in place.  it's why denver goes to ND.  it's why cornell plays at syracuse.  it's why UVa plays at loyola.  they can only do so many 400+ mile flights.

also keep in mind one minor difference- the women's game has a larger field (27) and more teams and a larger presence in the midwest and west coast (south too).  therefore, QF sites are scattered better.  whereas the men's side, most of it is the 95 corridor.  thus, north is hofstra, south is navy.  and so your top 4 seeds might get the advantage of being near those sites (or, if hosting, a home game!). 
There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.

OldSeawolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 996
  • Location: Suffolk County, NY
    • View Profile
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #497 on: May 07, 2018, 06:06:06 pm »
Good article; I should have read it before posting.  I didn’t realize that they were a #6 in RPI and a mid-30’s in strength of schedule. Puts a different perspective on it.

However, it really devalues the meaning of the season poll.

Assuming a round of 16 win, that BC game on the road could be a real thorn in their side. That difference between being a #4 and a #5 could turn out to be huge.
How old a Seawolf am I? I followed them during their Final 4 DIII hoops run in 1977-78 (they were called the Patriots then)

Chairman of the Board

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Location: New York, NY
    • View Profile
    • SB Lacrosse Alumni Org
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #498 on: May 07, 2018, 06:14:19 pm »
yes.  and i echoed the earlier comment- we have to go on the road, that's really the worst of it.

if we didnt follow a blind computer, i guess then you'd have the problem you had 10 years ago with the BCS in 1A football; too much human element deciding who can play.
There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.

OldSeawolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 996
  • Location: Suffolk County, NY
    • View Profile
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #499 on: May 07, 2018, 06:34:16 pm »
So what’s the moral of the story: stick to the computer algorithms entirely and get rid of the meaningless polls then, since they supersede the polls by far in overall level of importance anyway.
How old a Seawolf am I? I followed them during their Final 4 DIII hoops run in 1977-78 (they were called the Patriots then)

VA_Seawolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • Location: NoVA
    • View Profile
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #500 on: May 07, 2018, 11:26:04 pm »
see the link i posted above about the human element.  the cmte admits they arent necessarily allowed to "eyeball" the selections.  and the polls arent necessarily factored in.  the polls are what the pollsters think are the rankings.  the RPI is done by CPU and that's what (mostly) drives the seedings.

that, and other factors.  for example- see geography.  see the men's side where bobby mo was TEN slots of RPI in front of richmond, and yet bobby mo gets the play in game.  why?  there's a 400 mile rule in place.  it's why denver goes to ND.  it's why cornell plays at syracuse.  it's why UVa plays at loyola.  they can only do so many 400+ mile flights.

also keep in mind one minor difference- the women's game has a larger field (27) and more teams and a larger presence in the midwest and west coast (south too).  therefore, QF sites are scattered better.  whereas the men's side, most of it is the 95 corridor.  thus, north is hofstra, south is navy.  and so your top 4 seeds might get the advantage of being near those sites (or, if hosting, a home game!).

I get it that schools want to save on travel costs, but this is postseason play with national championships on the line. They do this non-sense in the FCS playoffs too. Give one team a harder bracket just because they're closer to another team.

Looking at the teams that are in on the men's side: UVA, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Cornell, Denver..... none of those schools are hurting for money I can tell you that much. If damn Chicago St. can afford to fly their teams all over the country for WAC basketball when the state of Illinois didn't even give them a budget... I think most well funded D1 programs could afford another flight or two, just a thought.



The AE conference is the kiss of death. I've been preaching that for years and a few on this board always disagree. Well people. The proof is in the putting. SBWL got hosed because of this conference.

True, but Hofstra has been blocking us from the CAA forever. Maybe if we win the national title, it could be enough of a catalyst to get the rest of the league to add us for all sports. It'd be the cherry on top of what we already offer.

Hammertime

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3201
    • View Profile
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #501 on: May 08, 2018, 04:57:39 am »
see the link i posted above about the human element.  the cmte admits they arent necessarily allowed to "eyeball" the selections.  and the polls arent necessarily factored in.  the polls are what the pollsters think are the rankings.  the RPI is done by CPU and that's what (mostly) drives the seedings.

that, and other factors.  for example- see geography.  see the men's side where bobby mo was TEN slots of RPI in front of richmond, and yet bobby mo gets the play in game.  why?  there's a 400 mile rule in place.  it's why denver goes to ND.  it's why cornell plays at syracuse.  it's why UVa plays at loyola.  they can only do so many 400+ mile flights.

also keep in mind one minor difference- the women's game has a larger field (27) and more teams and a larger presence in the midwest and west coast (south too).  therefore, QF sites are scattered better.  whereas the men's side, most of it is the 95 corridor.  thus, north is hofstra, south is navy.  and so your top 4 seeds might get the advantage of being near those sites (or, if hosting, a home game!).

I get it that schools want to save on travel costs, but this is postseason play with national championships on the line. They do this non-sense in the FCS playoffs too. Give one team a harder bracket just because they're closer to another team.

Looking at the teams that are in on the men's side: UVA, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Cornell, Denver..... none of those schools are hurting for money I can tell you that much. If damn Chicago St. can afford to fly their teams all over the country for WAC basketball when the state of Illinois didn't even give them a budget... I think most well funded D1 programs could afford another flight or two, just a thought.



The AE conference is the kiss of death. I've been preaching that for years and a few on this board always disagree. Well people. The proof is in the putting. SBWL got hosed because of this conference.

True, but Hofstra has been blocking us from the CAA forever. Maybe if we win the national title, it could be enough of a catalyst to get the rest of the league to add us for all sports. It'd be the cherry on top of what we already offer.

I dont know for sure if Hofstra still has us on their $hit list ever since Heilbron came on board, thanks Jim Fiore, We are open to all sports again, so I'd imagine we could join the CAA if asked..

Chairman of the Board

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Location: New York, NY
    • View Profile
    • SB Lacrosse Alumni Org
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #502 on: May 08, 2018, 08:32:22 am »
see the link i posted above about the human element.  the cmte admits they arent necessarily allowed to "eyeball" the selections.  and the polls arent necessarily factored in.  the polls are what the pollsters think are the rankings.  the RPI is done by CPU and that's what (mostly) drives the seedings.

that, and other factors.  for example- see geography.  see the men's side where bobby mo was TEN slots of RPI in front of richmond, and yet bobby mo gets the play in game.  why?  there's a 400 mile rule in place.  it's why denver goes to ND.  it's why cornell plays at syracuse.  it's why UVa plays at loyola.  they can only do so many 400+ mile flights.

also keep in mind one minor difference- the women's game has a larger field (27) and more teams and a larger presence in the midwest and west coast (south too).  therefore, QF sites are scattered better.  whereas the men's side, most of it is the 95 corridor.  thus, north is hofstra, south is navy.  and so your top 4 seeds might get the advantage of being near those sites (or, if hosting, a home game!).

I get it that schools want to save on travel costs, but this is postseason play with national championships on the line. They do this non-sense in the FCS playoffs too. Give one team a harder bracket just because they're closer to another team.

Looking at the teams that are in on the men's side: UVA, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Cornell, Denver..... none of those schools are hurting for money I can tell you that much. If damn Chicago St. can afford to fly their teams all over the country for WAC basketball when the state of Illinois didn't even give them a budget... I think most well funded D1 programs could afford another flight or two, just a thought.



The AE conference is the kiss of death. I've been preaching that for years and a few on this board always disagree. Well people. The proof is in the putting. SBWL got hosed because of this conference.

True, but Hofstra has been blocking us from the CAA forever. Maybe if we win the national title, it could be enough of a catalyst to get the rest of the league to add us for all sports. It'd be the cherry on top of what we already offer.

is it the schools, or the n$aa that are paying???  i ask because im really not sure.

There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.

Chairman of the Board

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Location: New York, NY
    • View Profile
    • SB Lacrosse Alumni Org
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #503 on: May 08, 2018, 11:45:14 am »
http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/snubs-surprises-why-stony-brook-is-a-no-5-seed-and-more-from-women-s-ncaa-di-bracket/52199

Quote
Here's what I was surprised most about:

-The committee dropped the Seawolves THIS low. Stony Brook boasts wins over USC, Stanford, Denver, Northwestern, Towson, Johns Hopkins and Penn State—all but one are NCAA Tournament teams this year.

-The committee seemingly didn't take into consideration losses as much as "quality" wins (i.e. North Carolina's 3 vs. a combined 3 between BC, JMU, MD & SB; more on that below.)

-Stony Brook being an America East team hurt them as much as it did. While I understand RPI and what goes into factoring these rankings, I think it's somewhat antiquated and not in-tune with this sport's growth. It's fantastic that teams from nontraditional power conferences are making waves in the DI ranks, but often these teams are punished when it comes to seeding in this tournament. I also think this hurt teams out west, namely Stanford.

-The national polls didn't mean anything. Hey, I get it. They rarely ever do in this conversation annually. But when an expert poll—especially that of the IWLCA Poll, comprised solely of voters that are college coaches, playing these teams week-in and week-out—has been voting a single team as the nation's top for the majority of the season, I think that says something.

So to close this one out, because of RPI and quality wins I didn't think that the NCAA would reward Stony Brook with the No. 1 seed... but I did think they'd be in the No. 2-4 discussion, with a potential to host in the quarterfinals.

I think Boston College at No. 4 is the biggest snub of the bracket, with I suppose Stony Brook at No. 5 as the second biggest.

Should BC and Stony Brook advance, it's also crazy to think that the two teams that have been receiving the most first place votes this spring—outside of maybe only Maryland—won't even be meeting in a Final Four setting.

For what it's worth, here's how I would've seeded the top five:
1. Maryland, No. 2 Stony Brook, No. 3 Boston College, No. 4 James Madison, No. 5 UNC

You know who else are quality wins? Notre Dame, Navy, USC, UNC, Dartmouth, Duke, Northwestern, Denver, Syracuse, Virginia—all teams that Boston College and Stony Brook recorded wins over this season.
There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.

Chairman of the Board

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Location: New York, NY
    • View Profile
    • SB Lacrosse Alumni Org
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #504 on: May 08, 2018, 11:46:47 am »
#1 in the final poll, nearly unanimous

https://www.iwlca.org/news_article/show/915377
There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.

Chairman of the Board

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Location: New York, NY
    • View Profile
    • SB Lacrosse Alumni Org
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #505 on: May 08, 2018, 11:48:20 am »
ohlmiller selected first in the draft: https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/fuel/daily-digest/dialed-in-your-lacrosse-fix-for-tuesday-may-8

Quote
And on the women's side, the Women's Professional Lacrosse League held its inaugural draft last night. With the first pick, the New York Fight selected Stony Brook's Kylie Ohlmiller.

With the first overall pick of #WPLLCollegeDraft18, the @NY_Fight select attacker Kylie Ohlmiller from @StonyBrookWLAX! See the full draft show here: https://t.co/OhWZ5vhllx pic.twitter.com/iRimtz0A1B

— WPLL (@prowomenslax) May 8, 2018


Quote
10. New York Fight: Courtney Murphy, A, Stony Brook
There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.

Chairman of the Board

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Location: New York, NY
    • View Profile
    • SB Lacrosse Alumni Org
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #506 on: May 08, 2018, 05:44:12 pm »
WOMEN'S LACROSSE: Was Stony Brook Snubbed by NCAA Selection Committee?
https://herosports.com/lacrosse/womens-lax-was-stony-brook-snubbed-by-ncaa-selection-committee-cici

Quote
Stony Brook led both polls for most of the season, but won't have home field advantage through the quarterfinals. What gives?

From this data, it seems that the strongest indicator of seeding at the top was a team’s record against other tournament teams. It’s almost a straight linear pattern from the top down: Maryland won 12 of 13; North Carolina won 9 of 12; Madison won 8 of 9. Predictably, things get stickier when you consider Boston College and Stony Brook both played six apiece, with the Seawolves winning all six and the Eagles winning five.

I imagine the committee is prepared to argue that Boston College was undefeated until very recently, when it lost in the ACC tournament championship game to North Carolina. Clearly, the major difference between profiles is Boston College’s ACC Schedule (Average Opponent RPI: 23) held up against Stony Brook’s America East Schedule (Average Opponent RPI: 80).

Bottom line? The résumé differences between Stony Brook and Boston College are so paper-thin that either team would be a defensible selection for the No. 4 seed. Despite what the polls might say, it’s hard to sell Stony Brook’s No. 5 seed as an outright snub. If anyone has a right to complain here, it’s a No. 6 Florida team with more marquee wins than both of the two teams seeded immediately above it.


Quote
Stony Brook got a little unlucky with how some of its non-conference opponents turned out, but it still could have been more aggressive in its scheduling. Replacing a CAA opponent like Delaware with a nearby ACC school like Syracuse might be the extra bump it could have needed to pass BC.

Albany, the America East’s second-best team, did not come close to making this bracket as an at-large selection. Its RPI was 48.
There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.

Chairman of the Board

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Location: New York, NY
    • View Profile
    • SB Lacrosse Alumni Org
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #507 on: May 08, 2018, 05:46:14 pm »
Women’s Lacrosse assigned number five seed for NCAA Tournament
http://www.sbstatesman.com/2018/05/08/womens-lacrosse-assigned-number-five-seed-for-ncaa-tournament/

Quote
Stony Brook, which received all 23 number one votes this past weekend and most recently won the America East Championship for a sixth straight season, is seeded below Maryland, North Carolina, James Madison and Boston College, which were awarded the No. 1, No. 2, No. 3 and No. 4 seeds, respectively.

Stony Brook has had its fair share of underseeding in the past, specifically last season. The Seawolves were going to be ranked seventh in last year’s poll, but were relegated to a No. 8 seed. The team went on to face Maryland in the quarterfinals and lost in the final minutes.

I mean, we have the number one non-conference [Rating Percentage Index] in the country,” Spallina said. “That’s got to be worth something. If we aren’t number one, what they’re basically saying is if you’re not in the Big 10, if you’re not in the ACC, you can’t be a one or two, maybe even a three or a four. So they’re going to have to look at themselves in the mirror and figure it out. I would just hope that just because we aren’t a power five conference, that we get the respect that we deserve.”
There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.

VA_Seawolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • Location: NoVA
    • View Profile
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #508 on: May 09, 2018, 12:35:15 pm »
The Cartel Five don't want the little guy winning or even having a chance. I say let's win it all on our home field and shut all the naysayers up. It's criminal what the committee has been allowed to get away with.

ry1nik

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 899
  • Location: Richmond VA
    • View Profile
Re: Women's Lacrosse: Discussion/ News
« Reply #509 on: May 09, 2018, 01:05:54 pm »
The seeding criteria are bogus. It's based largely on RPI and strength of schedule as separate factors. Guess what...that's double counting.  RPI already is based on SOS. They're essentially counting SOS twice. Of course the Power 5 teams benefit most from this double counting.