Seawolves Fans
Athletics => SBU Football => Topic started by: Wolffan on September 23, 2018, 02:19:49 pm
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First of all, playing a quality sports and academic school like Villanova here at home is in and of itself a good thing.
The game day experience at the stadium (band, cheerleaders, sound system, scoreboard, security, concessions, beer garden, etc.) is impressive at this point.
Since both CAA football teams are having good years thus far, there are plenty of alums
[from both schools] in the area, and the weather should be nice, this is a great shot at a sellout.
Am I wrong?
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Hopefully we will get one and have the place rocking for a change . This is a solid opponent and they are having a good season .
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I don't know what else do Stony Brook athletic administrators have to do to draw attendance... We have a good product on the field and a fantastic stadium. I don't get it. Why is the community not out there in bunches.
Touchdown Club, Beergarden, New Concessions, great seats, and most importantly: a winning team!
I hope attendance improves
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they do get the community out there- in the thousands.
the issue is, you cant fill 10,000 seats when there's less than a thousand students on campus, and nearly none show up to the game.
http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/
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I'd love to see this happen, but realistically I doubt it. We never get sellouts unless it's homecoming. In past years the home opener has also been a very well attended game. I also believe it would take years of sustained success to get to the point where the fan following was significant. I remember we started winning Big South titles in 2009, but it wasn't until 2012 that attendance really started looking impressive for each game.
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yeah i recall the same. it's sad really, with the size of the student body, the surrounding population, our facilities, and all the money we've dumped into the program.
and we get a bigger share from NYS than albany and they arguably are ahead of us in many respects.
and it's one very simple reason why. if we fix that, a lot of other things will likely fall into place.
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That train is our biggest enemy Chair! lol
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it's why one of my suggestions was then to get more students from upstate (not that they wanna live on the island). doesnt fix the entire problem, but alleviates it somewhat.
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At one time SBU had a teaching program which if we still had it would get a different type of student on campus that might want to go to games. We have all these Asian students and they usually don't support athletics.
As far as the trains go maybe the school can use it to their advantage by working out a deal with LIRR and package a train ticket with a football ticket to get more people from the NYC and Nassau County. Also work out a deal with a Bus Company for a package deal that does the same thing.
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i think youre right. fact is there is a balance between academics and spirit, and so many other schools have managed it. and have created the classic university atmosphere. SB goes the other way and stifles it, whether indifference or just ignoring it.
the real pain here is that if we don't get this right in the next few years- we lose our status, and lose it to ualbany. in fact, i might even argue it's already happened in the last 10-12 years.
administration: better pull the finger out and get on it!!!
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i think youre right. fact is there is a balance between academics and spirit, and so many other schools have managed it. and have created the classic university atmosphere. SB goes the other way and stifles it, whether indifference or just ignoring it.
the real pain here is that if we don't get this right in the next few years- we lose our status, and lose it to ualbany. in fact, i might even argue it's already happened in the last 10-12 years.
administration: better pull the finger out and get on it!!!
6500 was the attendance at this past game. 6450 were non-students. It really is embarrassing that SB cant figures a way to keep, let's say, 2000 students on Campus and to watch the game... Maybe a little persuasion might help, like one free beer per student who attends the game, at the beer garden. Over 21 of course! lol
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The LIRR train package is a good idea. I'd definitely take that and run with it if it's feasible on both sides.
A bigger issue is simply the demographics of the campus. Sure we have a lot of international students who may or may not be ambivalent towards football/athletics, but the bigger issue is our commuter population. They're on campus during the day, but gone during the weekends. That's part of why I think being in a conference like the MAC, or otherwise playing more weeknight games might not be the worst thing in the world. Thursday night games have IIRC been well attended here in the past. It's something to think about which brings me to my next point...
FCS football. Like it or not, for better or for worse. FCS programs in large markets are invisible. If you hope to gain any sort of local fan following in a large city, you need to be FBS and at the top level. It simply is what it is. Look no further than schools like NIU and Georgia State as examples. GSU is on the rise and NIU made a BCS bowl and has a nice fan following despite being in the Chicago market. I'm a broken record on this, but being FBS would go a long way in helping our attendance woes. Combined with the midweek games you see in the MAC, I think it may be more beneficial to us than it is to other MAC schools who have larger resident student populations. Just look at ODU's upset of VA Tech this weekend at home. That never could have happened if they were still in the CAA/FCS. The possibility of home games against Army, Syracuse, BC, Temple, and others is awfully enticing.
As far as Albany and losing our status, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Albany is several spots below us academically despite being a fellow SUNY research center. They're also behind us in football since it took them a whole decade longer than us to get a new stadium, and several years longer to leave the NEC, add scholarships, and start investing in football. Albany does better on the field and on the court relative to us than I would like, but the academic gulf is large enough that I wouldn't worry. When Albany gains acceptance into the AAU, and surpasses us academically will I start to worry about them. Keep in mind they have to compete with UB and Binghamton for students up-state. SBU is the only show in town for the Tri-State kids who want to stay relatively close. There's advantages in being close to the people.
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i happen to think that if they resolve the student life problem, nearly everything else will likely fall into place. game attendance, student happiness, improved food, school spirit, more applications, better students, increased alumni giving, stimulate local economy, and university perception.
this is an area that ualbany continues to dominate us. and we lose students. it's only a matter of time before... they get the better athletes, coaches, professors, flagship status, and then.... the state $$$.
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A bigger issue is simply the demographics of the campus. Sure we have a lot of international students who may or may not be ambivalent towards football/athletics, but the bigger issue is our commuter population. They're on campus during the day, but gone during the weekends.
agreed on demographics- i look at it this way:
too many students are in the LI/NYC area, making it too easy to get home
because of instate tuition, it's not workable to have a significant # of out of state students
therefore, look upstate
but upstate kids are different than LI/NYC kids; we're just more difficult and clique-y (sorry, it's just true)
and so they don't want to face traffic to go to LI when they can just go to geneseo, bingo, or ualbany
when they do enroll, the spend a month or even a semester being bored in silence from thursday to monday. and then transfer. you can get a good academic program elsewhere and not be miserable.
and there it is. we dont have the appeal. and it's going to get worse.
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As far as Albany and losing our status, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Albany is several spots below us academically despite being a fellow SUNY research center. They're also behind us in football since it took them a whole decade longer than us to get a new stadium, and several years longer to leave the NEC, add scholarships, and start investing in football. Albany does better on the field and on the court relative to us than I would like, but the academic gulf is large enough that I wouldn't worry. When Albany gains acceptance into the AAU, and surpasses us academically will I start to worry about them. Keep in mind they have to compete with UB and Binghamton for students up-state. SBU is the only show in town for the Tri-State kids who want to stay relatively close. There's advantages in being close to the people.
sorry wanted to respond to this- ualbany has a fine academic reputation. sure, maybe not SB in the grand scheme. but, the campus has come a long way, it has a college town, and a BIG social scene. i remember during my years it was something like NUMBER TWO nationally. contrast with SB, which has to the inverse (second to last?) in that category. military-esque, if you will. (actually worse, because at least those kids are on campus and go to games)
normal kids visit schools and go based on feel. a degree is a degree. spending a weekend in silence, when you're expecting a large state school atmosphere, makes one forget about the minor differences in rankings.
and so we get students that were denied everywhere else. and that's not what we want.
no strawberry-fest in the world will keep kids on campus every weekend.
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Full disclosure: I'm not really a football fan, however I did go to the game this past weekend and enjoyed the experience. But I do think of myself as, in general, a sports fan, and most specifically a college sports fan.
When I moved here about 20 years ago from an area of the country that had rabid college sports fans (because, frankly, there were no other sports options) a colleague told me that the NY metro area has always been a "pro sports town" with little to no interest in college sports.
So I'm just asking the question to those of you who I can tell are much more knowledgeable about sports in the area and with SBU football specifically: Are you fighting a battle (ie, trying to promote and expand SBU football) that cannot be won?
Of course I know anything is possible and maybe enthusiasm can grow over time, but I sometimes wonder if all the promotion and money and quality college sports product in the world will never have much clout in this area. And believe me, I would like to see SBU sports gain popularity, I just wonder if they can.
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Moveitfred:
I think trying to fill the (12K) stadium for a very good matchup between a local team and a team with many alums in the area is a fair and reasonable goal.
You have a point that college football is not very big in the NYC area (outside of West Point). It is a pro sports town IMHO.
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http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/msg10362/#msg10362
http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/msg10494/#msg10494
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to me, the issue isnt whether it's a pro sports town (it is), the issue is we struggle to fill stadiums, when not even leveraging our 30k population of students/faculty.
it's a shame, really, all those people in a few square miles that are associated with the U, and we get how many, 2% (assumes 600 total) to LaValle?
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The LIRR train package is a good idea. I'd definitely take that and run with it if it's feasible on both sides.
A bigger issue is simply the demographics of the campus. Sure we have a lot of international students who may or may not be ambivalent towards football/athletics, but the bigger issue is our commuter population. They're on campus during the day, but gone during the weekends. That's part of why I think being in a conference like the MAC, or otherwise playing more weeknight games might not be the worst thing in the world. Thursday night games have IIRC been well attended here in the past. It's something to think about which brings me to my next point...
FCS football. Like it or not, for better or for worse. FCS programs in large markets are invisible. If you hope to gain any sort of local fan following in a large city, you need to be FBS and at the top level. It simply is what it is. Look no further than schools like NIU and Georgia State as examples. GSU is on the rise and NIU made a BCS bowl and has a nice fan following despite being in the Chicago market. I'm a broken record on this, but being FBS would go a long way in helping our attendance woes. Combined with the midweek games you see in the MAC, I think it may be more beneficial to us than it is to other MAC schools who have larger resident student populations. Just look at ODU's upset of VA Tech this weekend at home. That never could have happened if they were still in the CAA/FCS. The possibility of home games against Army, Syracuse, BC, Temple, and others is awfully enticing.
As far as Albany and losing our status, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Albany is several spots below us academically despite being a fellow SUNY research center. They're also behind us in football since it took them a whole decade longer than us to get a new stadium, and several years longer to leave the NEC, add scholarships, and start investing in football. Albany does better on the field and on the court relative to us than I would like, but the academic gulf is large enough that I wouldn't worry. When Albany gains acceptance into the AAU, and surpasses us academically will I start to worry about them. Keep in mind they have to compete with UB and Binghamton for students up-state. SBU is the only show in town for the Tri-State kids who want to stay relatively close. There's advantages in being close to the people.
I honestly don't see FBS on its own as being the attendance solution. Especially nowadays that the FBS has been degraded to "near-FCS" quality and following. With the consolidation of the P5, the rest of the FBS has essentially become the FCS with 25 additional scholarships (except maybe the MW, and the American). The MAC has been suffering from attendance woes for years, the American Athletic has been struggling with attendance here in the Northeast despite a better product. UMass learned the hardway when it rushed reclassification and fell on its face. What I see is a regional environment that has little pulse for college football.
But even with that reality, I still think we should be capable of getting 10k-12k butts in the seat if we market the product right to our students and make it fun for them. There MUST be a real disconnect between administrators and the students when it comes to athletics. I remember back a few years ago when I was a senior (2012) that SBU was a little more flexible on the students allowing them to tailgate, frats brought DJs, some outdoor games, drinking, etc and all of it sudden you had the MAIN parking lot packed. At that point, I thought we had arrived. It was a great scene.
Yet, inexplicably, the following year, the administrators thought it was a great idea to charge over $100 bucks for season gameday parking, to kill the partying, and to end the frat-sponsored tailgating. There went the students. They didn't come back.
...and Stony Brook admins continue making the same mistakes today. Why not allow students to leave and return to the game after halftime? I don't mind if you do that with the adult crowd from the community which may be used to that in other sports environments. But don't do it to the students who want to go out at halftime and eat in the dining halls, sip a few drinks, etc.
The bottom line is that IMHO athletic administrators at SBU have yet to strike the balance between the needs of the student "fan" vs. the needs of the families, alumni, and other community members that attend our games. Both are extremely important and need to be taken care of.
Lastly, I know everyone says that Stony Brook is a commuter school and this and that... that students go away for weekends. But even on the worst weekend I'm absolutely sure that there has to be at least 4 to 5k students across campus. I'm telling you. Only about 50% (probably even less) of residents may go home on weekend. So we still have a solid 5K students to work with and draw them in. The campus being emtpy is a myth... I know it. I lived there for four years and you would always see kids during the weekend in the library, dorms playing videogame, dining halls, quad while there was a game at LaValle. Obviously, campus looks empty because they aren't out and about walking to class so you can't notice them... But they are in campus!
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They played Villanova in a 2012 playoff game and didnt come close to selling out. That was way before they added seats. Attendance that day was just under 5,000. In 2011 they drew a sellout against Albany in the first round of the playoffs. The week before against Liberty they drew just under 8,000 in a winner take all game for the conf title. I dont think that villanova is a big draw.
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So I'm just asking the question to those of you who I can tell are much more knowledgeable about sports in the area and with SBU football specifically: Are you fighting a battle (ie, trying to promote and expand SBU football) that cannot be won?
On the grand scheme of things the northeast coast is indeed a pro-sports region as whole. The proof is there - Look at Rutgers, Boston College, Connecticut, Temple, and even Syracuse how they struggle to draw 30k per game despite being well known programs.
Now, with that said. I think its completely achievable and doable for Stony Brook to draw 10-15k per game thanks to its student/staff/admin population. I'm not saying its realistic to ever expect Stony Brook to draw 20-25k fans per game (unless conditions change in the region) but 10-15k is completely doable with an honest effort to get everyone to the game. Not just dumping money at it...
We need student surveys asking what they desire from football gamedays and give them what they want.
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They played Villanova in a 2012 playoff game and didnt come close to selling out. That was way before they added seats. Attendance that day was just under 5,000. In 2011 they drew a sellout against Albany in the first round of the playoffs. The week before against Liberty they drew just under 8,000 in a winner take all game for the conf title. I dont think that villanova is a big draw.
I don't entirely disagree...but ...
Villanova playoff in 2012 was an ice-cold gusty wintry afternoon and even colder evening (it may have even flurried): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqy1Gegg1uw)
I'm hoping everything is in place (highly-ranked CAA rivals with playoffs hopes very much alive, great weather, good-sized visitor crowd, non-holiday weekend, stadium looking great, etc. etc.) for a shot at a sellout. Could be I am dreaming of course.
I remember attending a near-sellout v Colgate several years ago and being impressed by the numbers of Colgate fans...I'm assuming Villanova could fill their side of the stadium in the same manner as Colgate and as I recall they did sell out their side in 2012.
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to me, the issue isnt whether it's a pro sports town (it is), the issue is we struggle to fill stadiums, when not even leveraging our 30k population of students/faculty.
it's a shame, really, all those people in a few square miles that are associated with the U, and we get how many, 2% (assumes 600 total) to LaValle?
NY is very much a pro sports region, but here's the thing. When you have 12 MILLION people in your general market between NYC and long Island, I find it hard to believe you couldn't get 25k to Lavalle for a game against quality teams as an FBS program down the road. That's the vision Heilbron has when they talk about "big time" athletics. The population base is so big, that you really have to be dropping the ball to not at least get close to that. SBU is well positioned to be NY's college team for one simple reason. SBU is the closest, highly regarded, affordable public school for all the residents of NYC and Long Island. All the private schools are too expensive, and NYC residents don't get in-state tuition at Rutgers or UConn. I really think SBU has something here if they play their cards right.
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to me, the issue isnt whether it's a pro sports town (it is), the issue is we struggle to fill stadiums, when not even leveraging our 30k population of students/faculty.
it's a shame, really, all those people in a few square miles that are associated with the U, and we get how many, 2% (assumes 600 total) to LaValle?
NY is very much a pro sports region, but here's the thing. When you have 12 MILLION people in your general market between NYC and long Island, I find it hard to believe you couldn't get 25k to Lavalle for a game against quality teams as an FBS program down the road. That's the vision Heilbron has when they talk about "big time" athletics. The population base is so big, that you really have to be dropping the ball to not at least get close to that. SBU is well positioned to be NY's college team for one simple reason. SBU is the closest, highly regarded, affordable public school for all the residents of NYC and Long Island. All the private schools are too expensive, and NYC residents don't get in-state tuition at Rutgers or UConn. I really think SBU has something here if they play their cards right.
I think they have played their cards right in terms of attracting NY (especially NYC and LI) academic kids who used to look elsewhere. The admission stats have greatly improved, recent USNWR rankings put us on top (with Binghamton) in the SUNY system, the tuition is right, and the campus is looking better every year. I teach high school and some of our top kids now go to SBU. That was just not the case 10 years ago .
IMHO the athletic facilities are just about right and now it is a question of getting the fans into the seats and consistently winning in as many sports as we can.
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You have to figure into the equation one very important stat SBU has, and that is Ethnicity. SB has a lot of Asians and Middle Eastern students who are here, for one thing, a Degree. The majority could care less about our football, basketball, Lax, sports as a whole. This is a fact and not a racist slur or something else. ( I am NOT a racist by any stretch just stating a fact).. I live in Setauket and have a bunch of Asians families who live near me and whenever I get an opportunity to speaking to some of them I'll bring up the question. Do you like Football or Basketball, and everyone will tell me no. The majority of Asians don't even like sports. Now, how do you explain the non Asian Middle Eastern students who live near SB and are students? I think a lot of those people are studying for their Doctorate degrees and are Doctors already and really don't have time to partake in any sporting event.
If SBU were a Liberal Arts school I think the ratio to students going to sporting events would be much higher. Couple that with NY being a "pro sport" region, hence the small turnout at LaValle stadium. Can that ever be fixed. I doubt it, however. If more and more people shut the TV off on NFL Sunday, like I do, and stick with College sports, then maybe we can get more students and fans to fill the stadium.
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agreed with crazy eddie that the FCS is catching up to the FBS- at least in terms of winning- perhaps in attendance too.
and non-P5 FBS is becoming a wash with the CAA and MVC playing so well. do i think NDSU, illinois state, JMU, and nova can defeat half of the sunbelt or CUSA? sure.
id certainly rather watch those teams!
and that's not even counting sam houston & co.
also agreed that 10-12k is a reasonable target.
i'll be out there in a few weeks on a saturday. i'll count how many students i see outdoors that arent competing in a varsity athletic event (or preparing for one).
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to me, the issue isnt whether it's a pro sports town (it is), the issue is we struggle to fill stadiums, when not even leveraging our 30k population of students/faculty.
it's a shame, really, all those people in a few square miles that are associated with the U, and we get how many, 2% (assumes 600 total) to LaValle?
NY is very much a pro sports region, but here's the thing. When you have 12 MILLION people in your general market between NYC and long Island, I find it hard to believe you couldn't get 25k to Lavalle for a game against quality teams as an FBS program down the road. That's the vision Heilbron has when they talk about "big time" athletics. The population base is so big, that you really have to be dropping the ball to not at least get close to that. SBU is well positioned to be NY's college team for one simple reason. SBU is the closest, highly regarded, affordable public school for all the residents of NYC and Long Island. All the private schools are too expensive, and NYC residents don't get in-state tuition at Rutgers or UConn. I really think SBU has something here if they play their cards right.
while i completely agree- let's break this down a bit.
unless related, no one is crossing a bridge or taking a ferry to see SB play, not in 2018. so strike all of CT, NJ, the bronx, manhattan.
brooklyn and queens- not big football fans because there isnt as much football played there. too many distractions, difficult traffic, distance is ~50 miles which can total 3-4hrs in the car.
are they taking trains? they should. i have. will this be a significant #? i don't think so. but would like to see this happen.
that leaves nassau and suffolk. it can take over an hour to get 20 miles. sitting on nicolls isnt fun. parking situation is not optimal. can watch the game online. or other games. NE weather generally degrades in late Oct through november.
the only real answer is to get students to the game. but they arent on campus.
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You have to figure into the equation one very important stat SBU has, and that is Ethnicity. SB has a lot of Asians and Middle Eastern students who are here, for one thing, a Degree. The majority could care less about our football, basketball, Lax, sports as a whole. This is a fact and not a racist slur or something else. ( I am NOT a racist by any stretch just stating a fact).. I live in Setauket and have a bunch of Asians families who live near me and whenever I get an opportunity to speaking to some of them I'll bring up the question. Do you like Football or Basketball, and everyone will tell me no. The majority of Asians don't even like sports. Now, how do you explain the non Asian Middle Eastern students who live near SB and are students? I think a lot of those people are studying for their Doctorate degrees and are Doctors already and really don't have time to partake in any sporting event.
If SBU were a Liberal Arts school I think the ratio to students going to sporting events would be much higher. Couple that with NY being a "pro sport" region, hence the small turnout at LaValle stadium. Can that ever be fixed. I doubt it, however. If more and more people shut the TV off on NFL Sunday, like I do, and stick with College sports, then maybe we can get more students and fans to fill the stadium.
useful intel, and very much agreed.
so that begs the question- should SB (and can SB) prefer student applicants who will contribute to the university's atmosphere?
with the understanding that ALL other things are equal (like grades and qualifications). tell me in a state of 20m we can't find 500 kids a year who are qualified and care about spirit??? 700???
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Thanks for all the discussion and ideas here from you informed folks. As admitted I'm not a rabid football fan, but I do overall enjoy various SBU sports and am also a local community member who would like to see things go well at the university. To add, of course the weather was perfect this past weekend but I have to say the whole "Wolfie Town" (is that what it's called?) seemed like a really fun scene, too. If parents with young kids don't have their day filled with running kids to soccer games or other such sports, that looks like a fun place to be.
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so that begs the question- should SB (and can SB) prefer student applicants who will contribute to the university's atmosphere?
with the understanding that ALL other things are equal (like grades and qualifications). tell me in a state of 20m we can't find 500 kids a year who are qualified and care about spirit??? 700???
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A noble idea, but as a parent who just sent kids through a local (3V) school district and off into college, I had to laugh. That is, if this was an assessment criteria you can bet parents would get wind of it and have all the college prep and tutors they hire to get their kids into the best schools add this to the essay or application! The whole college app process is so cutthroat, filled with lies and deceit...in my humble opinion, of course. ;D
And simply antidotal information, based on two recent high school graduates in the area and listening in on all the chatter:
Some very high-performing local academic kids went to SBU based on its growing academic reputation and, typically, good financial deal and scholarships offered. Never heard any one of them say anything about SBU sports.
Whereas a number of local kids who were interested in a college sports scene all went elsewhere (Alabama, Texas, Kansas, Syracuse, UCONN...just a few I remember among my kids' peer groups. Even Cortland, which seems to have a reputation as a fun D3 sports school, among other elements of its reputation).
Blatantly obvious, but "SBU" and "Sports" just don't go together for young people. But here's hoping at least that a lot of people come out for the Villanova game. I assume some of you were around and maybe went to the SBU/Villanova hoops game years ago in the old version of the arena, and I remember there being a big crowd for that one.
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Hammer. I had to read this a few times to ensure you stated what you did. I am a but disappointed in your statement. So now its the Asians (who make up 24 per cent-compared to the 35 per cent white at SBU) fault for not coming to the games and of course they dont like sports? I am guessing you've never been outside of the country to any Asian sporting events (basketball is normally PACKED as is Baseball. soccer and now even in China and Japan football leagues and teams are being played locally with a lot of success?. I asked SH about two years back why we don't see more of the SBU Professors at the games (BTW- 68.1 per cent WHITE and the only time they do is to get some type of recognition or an award) and he just stated that seems to be an ongoing issue and for various reasons (probably maybe they just dont give a rats a$$)
The fact is (as I raised several years back) and others have stated is that this is just NOT a college sports area, and really never has been nor WILL be. But if it were not for all those "Asians" coming to SBU and the boatload of money they bring in to the University (Charles Wang BTW) we might be still in a smaller conference with us never competing either academically or in sports.
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I think Hammer has a fair point in regards to ethnicity. I don't want to turn this into a ethnic war. It may indeed be one of the factors that affects attendance. But I also think its one of the factors that can be minimized with relatively less effort if the proper conditions are in place. I would put myself as an example...
I attended SBU. I'm a native of the Dominican Republic (known as a baseball powerhouse). Raised and still live in the Bronx and part of an ethnic group (Hispanic) which statistically tends to be more interested in soccer than American football. But hey, there it goes. I make my 90 minute drive to Stony Brook every Saturday to catch a football match-up. The point being that you can find young adults like me that can learn to enjoy the sport and the atmosphere. If you create a fun atmosphere for the students they will follow. Its like some sort of positive feedback loop or "network effect". I didn't know much about football before attending SBU. But when I attended the freshmen weekend opening game I was immediately interested.
Those barriers can easily be torn down if you make it fun. At the end of the day, we all need something to entertain us and keep us sane. I also noticed that the students that DO attend the football games tend to be pretty diverse which proves the point that it is possible to draw a diverse crowd of students. It all depends whether SBU athletics admins are willing to put the effort...
Now that I'm pursuing my MBA I realize that proper marketing is crucial.
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i took it as an honest, factual assessment that more white kids watch and play football than do other others, therefore, it's more likely that they will show up to games. i think we are all aware of the contributions to the U from others.
im just happy we are actually talking about the problem in a frank manner and hopefully, addressing it!
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well then sorry but if that is what you guys think is factual no need to even raise any other issues. Sad- I am out
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well then sorry but if that is what you guys think is factual no need to even raise any other issues. Sad- I am out
We don't want you to leave. No need to take offense. Just debating points. Lets keep cool and not get carried away. Is college football more appealing to certain groups? Yeah, probably. Does that mean we should give up on those groups that don't traditionally watch college football? No. We can improve attendance from all student groups. Trust me. With the right marketing it can be done. Take a look at the student section this upcoming Saturday and we can notice the crowd is pretty diverse. That is proof that if SBU admins were to market it better more kids from all background would come.
Sports are one of those things with the power to get all kinds of people together. That's why I love them
Why did they remove the podium for the leader of the red zone (Student section) who led the chants?
why did they ban re-entry for students?
Why is free parking and tailgating for students not allowed in main lot on game-days?
Why did they basically ban frat-sponsored tailgating?
Why are students not allowed to bring their own food from outside?
These are the questions we should be asking. How to improve the student experience...
Its time to cater to our students and potentially future fans. Yes, it means less money now... but potentially a lot more money in the future. SBU admins need to get their act together. Until then, don't expect to see any sellouts
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Hammer. I had to read this a few times to ensure you stated what you did. I am a but disappointed in your statement. So now its the Asians (who make up 24 per cent-compared to the 35 per cent white at SBU) fault for not coming to the games and of course they dont like sports? I am guessing you've never been outside of the country to any Asian sporting events (basketball is normally PACKED as is Baseball. soccer and now even in China and Japan football leagues and teams are being played locally with a lot of success?. I asked SH about two years back why we don't see more of the SBU Professors at the games (BTW- 68.1 per cent WHITE and the only time they do is to get some type of recognition or an award) and he just stated that seems to be an ongoing issue and for various reasons (probably maybe they just dont give a rats a$$)
The fact is (as I raised several years back) and others have stated is that this is just NOT a college sports area, and really never has been nor WILL be. But if it were not for all those "Asians" coming to SBU and the boatload of money they bring in to the University (Charles Wang BTW) we might be still in a smaller conference with us never competing either academically or in sports.
For the record. I agree with your points too. Very good. Why aren't our professors backing our winning program? How can we draw them in? Should we provide them ticket discounts for their families? should the department have an outreach program to call them before the season starts to sell them season tickets? Should we create a preferred section for professors in LaValle Stadium? Professor game night? Who knows. So many ideas off the top of my head.
In regards to academic contributions. Asians like all other student groups have made valuable contributions to the University. No one is getting singled out here in negative light. The University wouldn't be what it is today without its students, alumni, and philanthropist. Charles Wang made seven figure contributions for the beautiful Wang Center.
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Hammer. I had to read this a few times to ensure you stated what you did. I am a but disappointed in your statement. So now its the Asians (who make up 24 per cent-compared to the 35 per cent white at SBU) fault for not coming to the games and of course they dont like sports? I am guessing you've never been outside of the country to any Asian sporting events (basketball is normally PACKED as is Baseball. soccer and now even in China and Japan football leagues and teams are being played locally with a lot of success?. I asked SH about two years back why we don't see more of the SBU Professors at the games (BTW- 68.1 per cent WHITE and the only time they do is to get some type of recognition or an award) and he just stated that seems to be an ongoing issue and for various reasons (probably maybe they just dont give a rats a$$)
The fact is (as I raised several years back) and others have stated is that this is just NOT a college sports area, and really never has been nor WILL be. But if it were not for all those "Asians" coming to SBU and the boatload of money they bring in to the University (Charles Wang BTW) we might be still in a smaller conference with us never competing either academically or in sports.
Don't try and turn this into a hate thing on Asians, because it clearly is not. I have Asain friends and they don't like Football.
I was implying about sports at SB, not anything else.
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I was a little adamant about posting something like this for fear of someone taking what I said the wrong way. But because this a open Forum where we can talk about anything related to SB, I figured it wouldn't be a issue. I am not going to sit here all day at work explaining my reasoning. If someone takes offense to the truth, so be it.
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Cool so then heres my last post. The truth is you made all sorts of references to Asians but seem to leave out all the others who dont attend the games since we are normally at around 60 per cent filled (of course without all the freebies). Wonder if you singled out another minority you would be so applauded? And this is not the first time on this so called "open forum" the Asian issue has been raised. Oh and BTW as a FACT you stated "sports" but nice trying to cover it up. Go back and read your post. Gotta run, my Chinese food just arrived.
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Cool so then heres my last post. The truth is you made all sorts of references to Asians but seem to leave out all the others who dont attend the games since we are normally at around 60 per cent filled (of course without all the freebies). Wonder if you singled out another minority you would be so applauded? And this is not the first time on this so called "open forum" the Asian issue has been raised. Oh and BTW as a FACT you stated "sports" but nice trying to cover it up. Go back and read your post. Gotta run, my Chinese food just arrived.
Take care. I think you are the racist one. I am not, and I won't site here to defend what I wrote. A fact is a fact..
Thank you ecasadoSBU. You clearly understand what I was portraying.
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It's a shame the discussion broke down like this. We need to take a step back and analyze the situation without getting carried away with emotions. At the end of the day we are all fans of the Seawolves and support Stony Brook University.
I think both of you made strong points. I also made the point clear that student diversity may only be one small factor in this attendance issue. I also strongly believe that diversity is the easiest factor to overcome with the right tools to draw students in, especially in a collegiate atmosphere where people are open-minded and willing to try new things.
I would hate to lose any sbufan member due to a discussion based on how to improve attendance. So I hope that NYstateofmind reconsiders his decision to leave. Meanwhile, lets tone it down a bit and choose our words carefully to avoid any misunderstanding.
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agreed
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While I agree on the surface SBU doesn't have the demographics of a typical large state school with a rabid fan base, I know first hand it's possible to get Asian students out to games. Over my years at SBU, I had a Chinese roommate, and several Korean roommates who attended SBU though the foreign exchange program. All went to multiple football games. Foreign students want some of that typical American college experience, it was part of the draw of attending college in the United States. We can tap into that, but in order to do so we need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with dumb crap like charging for parking, charging for tailgating, banning fraternity tailgating, the re-entry policy, etc. We can do this.
The fact that a relatively benign comment meant to drive discussion would drive someone away from this forum is unfortunate, but it's a conversation that we ought to be allowed to have. SBU doesn't have large numbers of African Americans, Southerners, and Texans, three major demographic groups who tend to consume lots of football related content (yes I know all three of those groups can heavily overlap). We need to be free to discuss how we'll navigate these challenges as an athletic department as our marketing approach to our students may need to change. That's all.
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While I agree on the surface SBU doesn't have the demographics of a typical large state school with a rabid fan base, I know first hand it's possible to get Asian students out to games. Over my years at SBU, I had a Chinese roommate, and several Korean roommates who attended SBU though the foreign exchange program. All went to multiple football games. Foreign students want some of that typical American college experience, it was part of the draw of attending college in the United States. We can tap into that, but in order to do so we need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with dumb crap like charging for parking, charging for tailgating, banning fraternity tailgating, the re-entry policy, etc. We can do this.
The fact that a relatively benign comment meant to drive discussion would drive someone away from this forum is unfortunate, but it's a conversation that we ought to be allowed to have. SBU doesn't have large numbers of African Americans, Southerners, and Texans, three major demographic groups who tend to consume lots of football related content (yes I know all three of those groups can heavily overlap). We need to be free to discuss how we'll navigate these challenges as an athletic department as our marketing approach to our students may need to change. That's all.
I agree 100%, VASeawolf. This is an open forum and we should be able to talk about whatever is on our mind. [EDITED BY MODERATORS]
With that said. I believe SB is making a big mistake not allowing us to re-enter the stadium if you walk out. Tailgating is an integral part of going to a college football game.
This past game half of my tailgating members went out to the car at the end of the 3rdQ and could not return back to their seats.
What we are going to do with the Villanova game is. I am going to bring a portable big, flat monitor and hook it up to my Laptop and watch the game in the parking lot at halftime. You watch how this will take off and more fans will stay at their tailgate lot and watch the game on TV..
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Any stadium u go to doesnt allow rentry after u leave. The fact that they allowed it for all these yrs was a bonus. I have heard nothing but good things about the new amenities in the stadium. I will check it out during for myself this weekend. In order to move foward in the way most of u want to see, then they are going to have to make some money.
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Any stadium u go to doesnt allow rentry after u leave. The fact that they allowed it for all these yrs was a bonus. I have heard nothing but good things about the new amenities in the stadium. I will check it out during for myself this weekend. In order to move foward in the way most of u want to see, then they are going to have to make some money.
I think they should allow re-entry for students only.
For the rest of the audience that paid for a ticket they should stay within the stadium. It doesn't bother me to not be able to go out at halftime. I enjoyed the beergarden and new concession stands.
But a student is usually broke, let him go out and eat/drink in the Dining hall or get cheap beer from outside.
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Looks like Sunny skies for Saturday.
Perfect to beat up on the Wildcats!!!
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Can somebody explain the uproar with not being allowed out to the lot at halftime? Don't get me wrong, I loved that perk (despite my username I have had tickets for some time now), but my friends and I constantly acknowledged to ourselves that it was a bit ridiculous that we were allowed to do that. Tell me anywhere else that happens? Plus I am certain its not a coincidence that the rule was put in effect the first year beer sales came in...I am sure there is some liability issue where they can't serve beer and allow people to come and go.
Somebody suggested they'd leave at half and watch the second half from their car...if you are willing to pay full price for a ticket to see half the game, I'd suggest you could do the opposite too...buy 2 tickets so you can be re-admitted after halftime.
For those that suggest this rule hurts the students...I didn't see them showing up when they could come and go, so I doubt it changes anything there.
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Does it affect students? I thought students were admitted for free and just show their student IDs at the door?
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Totally agree. U can not come and go as u please anywhere else. It was a nice perk for how long it lasted. Time to move foward.
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Totally agree. U can not come and go as u please anywhere else. It was a nice perk for how long it lasted. Time to move foward.
Totally disagree. If it's not broken then leave it alone. Why be like everybody else? You say it all the time. Stony Brook is not a bigtime football school where we have to follow the herd and change to be like a Clemson, Georgia, NC State, etc... SB can't afford to lose fans. Having the privilege to go out to the parking lot for a refreshment or something to eat is what attracted a lot of people to watch the game. Kids can throw the ball around on the field and play catch, and adults can BS back at the tailgate lot and congregate for a half hour then go back into the stadium to watch the rest of the game.
I was actually keeping an eye on the Beergarden for the entire first half, from my seat, and was not impressed at all with the turnout of people buying beer. I dont see that as a HUGE money maker for the program..
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this is all good discussion. but i still think we are getting away from the larger issue. if they dont keep kids on campus, the chances are low that they'll fill the stadium (and have any kind of student-atmosphere advantage).
once we get them to stay on campus. then issue #2 is how to get them to the game. and then stay.
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https://stonybrookathletics.com/news/2018/9/27/together-we-transform-blog-together-we-transform-thursday-sept-27-2018.aspx?path=blog
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Progress will come with time . I have been following this program since its D3 days on the little field near the railroad station . That's when we played power houses like the Merchant Marine Academy and AIC . Wooden bleachers maybe 300 people there on a good day and the teams sat under the trees during halftime rain or shine. We have improved the experience of game day.
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Its not only about the beer, its the food concesdions as well. They added the new concession area so they could sell more food. As an alumn I appreciate the additions to the school, sports program, etc. The 30 yrs ago comment was right on, we played in front of 200 - 300 people. I enjoyed having a smoke at halftime and now i cant, its not going to stop me from going or enjoying the game. And no we are not clemsom but changing the re- entry rule doesnt mean that they r trying to be. The fact that they allow alcohol on campus whether selling it inside or letting you taigait with it is another bonus. There are a lot of schools that dont allow it unless the stadium is off campus.
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im not debating (nor do i think anyone else is!) how much progress we've made in 15 years. i think we're just pointing out the long term problem, which existed back then, and hasnt moved along much, if at all.
it's a fundamental, structural problem. i only bring it up because we keep talking about FBS, expanding LaValle, bringing in more revenue, growing the program, and attendance.
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https://stonybrookathletics.com/news/2018/9/27/together-we-transform-blog-together-we-transform-thursday-sept-27-2018.aspx?path=blog
This article almost confirms what I was feeling in regards to Stony Brook attendance.
I don't think attendance has actually gone down. My feeling is that Stony Brook stopped over-reporting attendance once that WSJ article came out that blasted CFB programs for over-reporting. The reason I say this is because the last game against Richmond looked like the usual attendance we have been getting in the past few years (that's without counting the people standing in the beergarden/touchdown club). After attending so many games and looking at reported attendances I have a "feel" for what the attendance is like by just looking at the crowd. But now its all over the place... I thought there were 7500-8000 there last game, yet to my surprise the official attendance was 6,272.
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My point in originally posting this thread is that this game looks like a perfect storm for a sell out (great seasons thus far for two CAA squads, a well known and respected quality opponent who is likely to at least sellout the visitors side, perfect weather, not a three day weekend, game day experience as good as it has ever been, etc, etc).
If we can't sell out this game this year, what game can we sell out this year?
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If the weather holds up we got a shot at selling out homecoming
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Totally agree. U can not come and go as u please anywhere else. It was a nice perk for how long it lasted. Time to move foward.
Totally disagree. If it's not broken then leave it alone. Why be like everybody else? You say it all the time. Stony Brook is not a bigtime football school where we have to follow the herd and change to be like a Clemson, Georgia, NC State, etc... SB can't afford to lose fans. Having the privilege to go out to the parking lot for a refreshment or something to eat is what attracted a lot of people to watch the game. Kids can throw the ball around on the field and play catch, and adults can BS back at the tailgate lot and congregate for a half hour then go back into the stadium to watch the rest of the game.
I was actually keeping an eye on the Beergarden for the entire first half, from my seat, and was not impressed at all with the turnout of people buying beer. I dont see that as a HUGE money maker for the program..
I've been to "smaller time" football schools and you also cannot exit there either...while you may be disappointed you can no longer tailgate at half (and trust me, I am too...but I am willing to sacrifice it for beer in the stadium and a constantly evolving game day experience), I doubt people are "attracted to the game" for the ability to go stand in a parking lot for a half hour instead of watching the band. I spent some time in the beergarden both games...there was definitely more people week 2, it will take time to grow (and if it does, I'd love for it to be moved onto the hill at the 50, or even on the side of the endzone by the new concessions...being behind the scoreboard isn't ideal). I don't know how publicized the beer garden is...if not for my season tickets (and a friend pointing it out on his), I wouldn't even know its there...they may be taking a slow approach to it. And its likely not a "huge" money maker, but I bet it brings in at least $1,000 a night...plus secondary benefits of maybe slowly drawing a handful of more casual fans to the game too.
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The beer garden in general was a good idea and I think it will add to the game experience for many fans.
The decision to have an awkward separation within the garden between season ticket holders and individual ticket holders is a peculiar one and I'd suggest one unseparated beer garden w/picnic benches would make much more sense. Many times those with season tickets are accompanied to the game by those who have purchased individual tickets and vice versa. Plus it just looks strange (I was on both sides last week v Richmond). I realize they are still working out the kinks in what is otherwise a very good idea.
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One thing we all forget is that Hofstra was in the CAA for a long time and their attendance was actually worse than SBU's which eventually made the school give up football,
The one thing that we have is we have a great venue located in a really nice area of Long Island. I just believe until the students come out on a regular basis attendance will stay in the 4,000 range.
Also when President Kenney was here she loved football president Stanley is not like her
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The beer garden in general was a good idea and I think it will add to the game experience for many fans.
The decision to have an awkward separation within the garden between season ticket holders and individual ticket holders is a peculiar one and I'd suggest one unseparated beer garden w/picnic benches would make much more sense. Many times those with season tickets are accompanied to the game by those who have purchased individual tickets and vice versa. Plus it just looks strange (I was on both sides last week v Richmond). I realize they are still working out the kinks in what is otherwise a very good idea.
Its not season ticket holders vs. non-season ticket holders...one is the beer garden, the other is the touchdown club (which is additional to just being a season ticket holder)...I believe everything is free in the touchdown club, hence the separation...that is an idea though, that there should be some way to flow between the 2, but I am sure they'd want to ensure that the tables and games over there were left available for touchdown club members. The touchdown club also has better sightlines with the scoreboard not being right in front of them. However, I have no problem with those that join the touchdown club being treated better, as they should be.
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One thing we all forget is that Hofstra was in the CAA for a long time and their attendance was actually worse than SBU's which eventually made the school give up football,
The one thing that we have is we have a great venue located in a really nice area of Long Island. I just believe until the students come out on a regular basis attendance will stay in the 4,000 range.
Also when President Kenney was here she loved football president Stanley is not like her
What makes you think Stanley doesn't like football? How he feels about the game personally I'm not entirely sure about, but based on his actions thus far, and his comments about FBS in the future, I have no reason to believe Stanley is anything less than 110% behind SBU football and athletics in general. I've heard JMU fans rip their president for wanting to stay in the FCS, not take the Sun Belt invite, etc. Other schools respect our commitment to athletics and willingness to spend money on our programs.
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One thing we all forget is that Hofstra was in the CAA for a long time and their attendance was actually worse than SBU's which eventually made the school give up football,
The one thing that we have is we have a great venue located in a really nice area of Long Island. I just believe until the students come out on a regular basis attendance will stay in the 4,000 range.
Also when President Kenney was here she loved football president Stanley is not like her
agreed
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The beer garden in general was a good idea and I think it will add to the game experience for many fans.
The decision to have an awkward separation within the garden between season ticket holders and individual ticket holders is a peculiar one and I'd suggest one unseparated beer garden w/picnic benches would make much more sense. Many times those with season tickets are accompanied to the game by those who have purchased individual tickets and vice versa. Plus it just looks strange (I was on both sides last week v Richmond). I realize they are still working out the kinks in what is otherwise a very good idea.
Its not season ticket holders vs. non-season ticket holders...one is the beer garden, the other is the touchdown club (which is additional to just being a season ticket holder)...I believe everything is free in the touchdown club, hence the separation...that is an idea though, that there should be some way to flow between the 2, but I am sure they'd want to ensure that the tables and games over there were left available for touchdown club members. The touchdown club also has better sightlines with the scoreboard not being right in front of them. However, I have no problem with those that join the touchdown club being treated better, as they should be.
Ahhh, that makes sense. I just popped up to the beer garden buy a beer at halftime and jumped to the wrong conclusion. Although more expensive, it was a lot quicker than a trip to the car...and I got to see the band.
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The beer garden in general was a good idea and I think it will add to the game experience for many fans.
The decision to have an awkward separation within the garden between season ticket holders and individual ticket holders is a peculiar one and I'd suggest one unseparated beer garden w/picnic benches would make much more sense. Many times those with season tickets are accompanied to the game by those who have purchased individual tickets and vice versa. Plus it just looks strange (I was on both sides last week v Richmond). I realize they are still working out the kinks in what is otherwise a very good idea.
Its not season ticket holders vs. non-season ticket holders...one is the beer garden, the other is the touchdown club (which is additional to just being a season ticket holder)...I believe everything is free in the touchdown club, hence the separation...that is an idea though, that there should be some way to flow between the 2, but I am sure they'd want to ensure that the tables and games over there were left available for touchdown club members. The touchdown club also has better sightlines with the scoreboard not being right in front of them. However, I have no problem with those that join the touchdown club being treated better, as they should be.
Ahhh, that makes sense. I just popped up to the beer garden buy a beer at halftime and jumped to the wrong conclusion. Although more expensive, it was a lot quicker than a trip to the car...and I got to see the band.
Good for you Wolffan. If you can tolerate drinking Bluepoint beer, then go for it..
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This is going to be a tough game for SB. Oddsmaker has V winning. Not a total surprise considering V beat Temple and SB got smoked by Temple and AF. With that said. This is a home game and SB has the backing of the home crowd. If Carbone van just step up his game a little more and his passing game breaks 200 yards for the game, we got a chance.
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This is going to be a tough game for SB. Oddsmaker has V winning. Not a total surprise considering V beat Temple and SB got smoked by Temple and AF. With that said. This is a home game and SB has the backing of the home crowd. If Carbone van just step up his game a little more and his passing game breaks 200 yards for the game, we got a chance.
Oddsmakers screwed up last week. Lets make back to back!
Tomorrow SBU Wins! Tomorrow SBU enters the PLAYOFF race!! :)
Be there early. Free shirts for first 1000 promo! LOL
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The beer garden in general was a good idea and I think it will add to the game experience for many fans.
The decision to have an awkward separation within the garden between season ticket holders and individual ticket holders is a peculiar one and I'd suggest one unseparated beer garden w/picnic benches would make much more sense. Many times those with season tickets are accompanied to the game by those who have purchased individual tickets and vice versa. Plus it just looks strange (I was on both sides last week v Richmond). I realize they are still working out the kinks in what is otherwise a very good idea.
Its not season ticket holders vs. non-season ticket holders...one is the beer garden, the other is the touchdown club (which is additional to just being a season ticket holder)...I believe everything is free in the touchdown club, hence the separation...that is an idea though, that there should be some way to flow between the 2, but I am sure they'd want to ensure that the tables and games over there were left available for touchdown club members. The touchdown club also has better sightlines with the scoreboard not being right in front of them. However, I have no problem with those that join the touchdown club being treated better, as they should be.
Ahhh, that makes sense. I just popped up to the beer garden buy a beer at halftime and jumped to the wrong conclusion. Although more expensive, it was a lot quicker than a trip to the car...and I got to see the band.
I think the TD Club has free food too, so if you don't have the time to consistently set up a tailgate, its not a bad deal...I think $200 for the year (but thats only you, guests have to pay $50/game)...if I am right and food and drinks are free, thats not bad if you grab a bite and have a couple beers each game
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attendance says https://stonybrookathletics.com/boxscore.aspx?id=8260&path=football
7720
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Loved the new additions. The atmosphere has really improved. The whole area behind the new seats was hopping, really adds a new dinamic when watching the game
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attendance says https://stonybrookathletics.com/boxscore.aspx?id=8260&path=football
7720
Yeah... Stony Brook is definitely being more honest about reporting. In the past they would've easily said there was 8-9k people there.
Good crowd!!!
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This is going to be a tough game for SB. Oddsmaker has V winning. Not a total surprise considering V beat Temple and SB got smoked by Temple and AF. With that said. This is a home game and SB has the backing of the home crowd. If Carbone van just step up his game a little more and his passing game breaks 200 yards for the game, we got a chance.
Oddsmakers screwed up last week. Lets make back to back!
Tomorrow SBU Wins! Tomorrow SBU enters the PLAYOFF race!! :)
Be there early. Free shirts for first 1000 promo! LOL
\
I Gotta quote myself just to say...
LETS GOOO SEAWOLVES!!!
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This is going to be a tough game for SB. Oddsmaker has V winning. Not a total surprise considering V beat Temple and SB got smoked by Temple and AF. With that said. This is a home game and SB has the backing of the home crowd. If Carbone van just step up his game a little more and his passing game breaks 200 yards for the game, we got a chance.
Oddsmakers screwed up last week. Lets make back to back!
Tomorrow SBU Wins! Tomorrow SBU enters the PLAYOFF race!! :)
Be there early. Free shirts for first 1000 promo! LOL
\
I Gotta quote myself just to say...
LETS GOOO SEAWOLVES!!!
Yup. And I also said if Carbone can break the 200-yard mark in passing SB has a chance to Win, win, win...