Poll

Heilbron will soon finish his third year as AD.  Do you think he has generally improved the athletic program at SB?

Absolutely - big improvements!
2 (28.6%)
No way - this program is in decline!
1 (14.3%)
Treading water
4 (57.1%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Voting closed: June 16, 2017, 07:40:14 pm

Author Topic: Shawn Heilbron / TWT  (Read 4316 times)

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #120 on: June 04, 2020, 09:47:40 am »
i have to agree.

also- i think our geographic location is probably is single biggest setback.
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VA_Seawolf

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #121 on: June 05, 2020, 01:33:14 pm »
i have to agree.

also- i think our geographic location is probably is single biggest setback.

Howso? SBU is the best public university option for all of the kids in NYC and LI. That's a population base of over 11M to pull students from with one of the world's most significant cities right there. How in the world is that a setback compared to those cities upstate that are seeing their populations decline?

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #122 on: June 05, 2020, 02:21:00 pm »
its a good question.

firstly- how can it be a good location when such a large portion of LIers won't attend SB, but would rather go to Buff/Bing/ua?

secondly, we are isolated.  LI is a bubble, full stop.  hard to get to.  traffic.  hard to get out.  high prices.  difficult people.  scarce open space.  not gown-friendly.  it's the reason you see LIers go up to bingo but not bingo kids down to LI.  rinse/repeat with another upstate region.  add that to #1, and we lose across the board.

while we are on the topic. LIers arent the easiest to get along with.  because it's insular.  ask an SB grad from a different region how that feels.  it's part of the reason those students last two semesters and split.

we say we are NY-accessible, but we all know it's really not.  2hrs on the train, or deal with 90min of driving and good luck finding/paying for parking, college kids!

realistically, the large population we draw off of is LI, queens, brooklyn, bronx.  none of which either have strong sports (relatively speaking), nor care about sports. 

add to that- that each one of those kids CAN and most WILL go home every weekend.

because of the train.  geography.

and the campus is in the middle of affluent suburbs.  it hinders off campus housing; college kids cannot afford an 800k house with 25k in taxes.  so they stay home, stay in the miserably overfilled dorms, or move to selden, PJ, mt. sinai, nowhere near campus.  the student population is thus fragmented.  don't give them any reason not to show up to something.  with all the distractions and technology today.  add in a car, designated driver, parking, traffic, and time.  time away from laptops and chargers. 

the campus also is just not designed well.  there's no congregation area.  there's nothing open on weekends.  no actual houses on campus.  no one is there.  and then it becomes cyclical, feeding off itself.  this may never change and it's a shame.

i think the only real solution here- and it's a long term one- is twofold.  they really need private industry to come in and build houses and a college town with a scene (and it needs to be done correctly).  secondly, they need to get away from this enrollment of local kids who just go home on thursday afternoons and return monday.  use the excelsior program, take in kids from the cap district, southern tier, CNY, ADK, WNY.  free money, more contribution to the community. 

all you need to do is spend a saturday night up in guilderland and you'll quickly see why they will eclipse us.  if they haven't already.

http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/

(and i didnt even get into what the campus looks like, it's lack of history, tradition, spirit, and the indifferent faculty)
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Green Opaque

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #123 on: June 05, 2020, 04:02:37 pm »
People donít like it when I speak badly about people who go home on the weekends. They tell me I shouldnít tell other people what to do with their lives. Well, I will, because what youíre doing is actively harming the university.

We need our new president to be forceful and ruthless, stopping at nothing to get what is good for our schools. Construct more housing and give a middle finger to the local residents who oppose it. Publicly talk down on commuting and going home on the weekend because thatís not what real college students do. Make going to athletic events a command, where you will feel left out if you donít go. Force and leadership is necessary.
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Hammertime

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #124 on: June 06, 2020, 05:09:41 am »
its a good question.

firstly- how can it be a good location when such a large portion of LIers won't attend SB, but would rather go to Buff/Bing/ua?

secondly, we are isolated.  LI is a bubble, full stop.  hard to get to.  traffic.  hard to get out.  high prices.  difficult people.  scarce open space.  not gown-friendly.  it's the reason you see LIers go up to bingo but not bingo kids down to LI.  rinse/repeat with another upstate region.  add that to #1, and we lose across the board.

while we are on the topic. LIers arent the easiest to get along with.  because it's insular.  ask an SB grad from a different region how that feels.  it's part of the reason those students last two semesters and split.

we say we are NY-accessible, but we all know it's really not.  2hrs on the train, or deal with 90min of driving and good luck finding/paying for parking, college kids!

realistically, the large population we draw off of is LI, queens, brooklyn, bronx.  none of which either have strong sports (relatively speaking), nor care about sports. 

add to that- that each one of those kids CAN and most WILL go home every weekend.

because of the train.  geography.

and the campus is in the middle of affluent suburbs.  it hinders off campus housing; college kids cannot afford an 800k house with 25k in taxes.  so they stay home, stay in the miserably overfilled dorms, or move to selden, PJ, mt. sinai, nowhere near campus.  the student population is thus fragmented.  don't give them any reason not to show up to something.  with all the distractions and technology today.  add in a car, designated driver, parking, traffic, and time.  time away from laptops and chargers. 

the campus also is just not designed well.  there's no congregation area.  there's nothing open on weekends.  no actual houses on campus.  no one is there.  and then it becomes cyclical, feeding off itself.  this may never change and it's a shame.

i think the only real solution here- and it's a long term one- is twofold.  they really need private industry to come in and build houses and a college town with a scene (and it needs to be done correctly).  secondly, they need to get away from this enrollment of local kids who just go home on thursday afternoons and return monday.  use the excelsior program, take in kids from the cap district, southern tier, CNY, ADK, WNY.  free money, more contribution to the community. 

all you need to do is spend a saturday night up in guilderland and you'll quickly see why they will eclipse us.  if they haven't already.

http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/

(and i didnt even get into what the campus looks like, it's lack of history, tradition, spirit, and the indifferent faculty)

Spot on Chairman. Well said.

May I add one more thing. You wont say it but I will.

You have to realize, even if SB found away to keep the majority of students on campus for the weekend they still won't be attending any football and BB games. Almost 50% of Stony Brook students are of International descent. They don't care about American sports. They are only here to learn our way of life. Learn our engineering, our business, then take it back to their country to steal our innovations and technology..( I had to say that Chair). But seriously. They start up manufacturing in Asia and sell our products back to us. All this because of our very good education system in America.

Bottom line. I've come to the conclusion, after over 10 years of attending SB sports, this University will never, ever be like a Syracuse, a Penn State, Rutgers, or even a B.C.

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #125 on: June 07, 2020, 06:00:44 pm »
its a good question.

firstly- how can it be a good location when such a large portion of LIers won't attend SB, but would rather go to Buff/Bing/ua?

secondly, we are isolated.  LI is a bubble, full stop.  hard to get to.  traffic.  hard to get out.  high prices.  difficult people.  scarce open space.  not gown-friendly.  it's the reason you see LIers go up to bingo but not bingo kids down to LI.  rinse/repeat with another upstate region.  add that to #1, and we lose across the board.

while we are on the topic. LIers arent the easiest to get along with.  because it's insular.  ask an SB grad from a different region how that feels.  it's part of the reason those students last two semesters and split.

we say we are NY-accessible, but we all know it's really not.  2hrs on the train, or deal with 90min of driving and good luck finding/paying for parking, college kids!

realistically, the large population we draw off of is LI, queens, brooklyn, bronx.  none of which either have strong sports (relatively speaking), nor care about sports. 

add to that- that each one of those kids CAN and most WILL go home every weekend.

because of the train.  geography.

and the campus is in the middle of affluent suburbs.  it hinders off campus housing; college kids cannot afford an 800k house with 25k in taxes.  so they stay home, stay in the miserably overfilled dorms, or move to selden, PJ, mt. sinai, nowhere near campus.  the student population is thus fragmented.  don't give them any reason not to show up to something.  with all the distractions and technology today.  add in a car, designated driver, parking, traffic, and time.  time away from laptops and chargers. 

the campus also is just not designed well.  there's no congregation area.  there's nothing open on weekends.  no actual houses on campus.  no one is there.  and then it becomes cyclical, feeding off itself.  this may never change and it's a shame.

i think the only real solution here- and it's a long term one- is twofold.  they really need private industry to come in and build houses and a college town with a scene (and it needs to be done correctly).  secondly, they need to get away from this enrollment of local kids who just go home on thursday afternoons and return monday.  use the excelsior program, take in kids from the cap district, southern tier, CNY, ADK, WNY.  free money, more contribution to the community. 

all you need to do is spend a saturday night up in guilderland and you'll quickly see why they will eclipse us.  if they haven't already.

http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/

(and i didnt even get into what the campus looks like, it's lack of history, tradition, spirit, and the indifferent faculty)

Spot on Chairman. Well said.

May I add one more thing. You wont say it but I will.

You have to realize, even if SB found away to keep the majority of students on campus for the weekend they still won't be attending any football and BB games. Almost 50% of Stony Brook students are of International descent. They don't care about American sports. They are only here to learn our way of life. Learn our engineering, our business, then take it back to their country to steal our innovations and technology..( I had to say that Chair). But seriously. They start up manufacturing in Asia and sell our products back to us. All this because of our very good education system in America.

Bottom line. I've come to the conclusion, after over 10 years of attending SB sports, this University will never, ever be like a Syracuse, a Penn State, Rutgers, or even a B.C.

10 years ago we had just barely started offering all of our allotted scholarships for football, 20 years ago we had just left division 2 and weren't even in the AAU yet. Change can happen and fairly quickly, but you can't throw your hands up and expect it will never happen. Academically we're there, but it's the other parts of the school we need to improve. The points made about our demographic make up have some merit and are worth considering. More out of state kids who stay on campus, and a shift in campus culture towards a more sociable one will over time improve the perception of the university. Change can happen, but we can't just give up on it. 

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #126 on: June 07, 2020, 07:49:52 pm »
Just to throw in my two cents that as SBU continues to climb academically we'll draw more and more from NYC, international students, and the top academic  LI kids who are going SUNY. Thus, I wouldn't expect to see an increase in students who are likely to head to football games.

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #127 on: June 08, 2020, 09:20:03 am »
I agree with most of the sentiments here... including attracting LI kids to bolster stadium attendance, but not at the expense of city kids, especially innercity kids. I am not in favor of reducing students from the city, even if they leave for the weekend to see their families.. Most of these are talented students from poor, lower-middle or middle-class families who are not affluent like the LI families that can afford Syracuse, NYU etc. These kids are getting world-class education that is affordable at Stony Brook. While l love the Seawolves and our Seawolves family, if its a choice between providing education to have-nots and athletics experience, I know what I would choose in a heartbeat.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 09:21:45 am by iBOsbu »

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #128 on: June 08, 2020, 09:45:24 am »
it's a fair point that i agree with- there's a more subtle point in there though that i want to clarify-

it's not that i think we should bypass better students from downstate in favor of worse students;

it's that if you can get the student from elsewhere, with all other aspects being equal, then let's prefer those who will contribute to the community.

i truly believe that, if the campus life gets bad enough (which it is), you will start to alienate good students anywhere.  bringing everything down. 

in other words, keeping a vibrant college atmosphere is part of attracting the best students, and the U endangers that by being a suitcase college.
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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #129 on: June 08, 2020, 10:46:17 am »
There is also this possibility mired in the mix:

What if our entire notion of a university, especially as it pertains to student life and gathering and sports and atmosphere, will be modestly/significantly/completely changed in the next several years or possibly our lifetimes because of health protocols and risks? What can any university do on the sports and student life end of things before that other big thing gets figured out? Is our vision of the vibrant university, built from past experience, applicable in the future?

And certainly there will be many opinions about the virus situation and where we stand. Go to your favorite partisan news source today and you'll get all the answers you want to hear.

Truth is, we don't know, and it's possible "a university" will need to be re-imagined by taking a hard look at what it can and cannot do. With regard to the interests here, that could be a change or end to some sports, to the fan experience, even what it means to "go to" a university.



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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #130 on: June 08, 2020, 12:00:05 pm »
excellent point.
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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #131 on: June 08, 2020, 01:11:45 pm »
if its a choice between providing education to have-nots and athletics experience, I know what I would choose in a heartbeat.

I also know which one I would choose in a heartbeat... it just probably isn't the same as yours.
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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #132 on: June 08, 2020, 11:09:43 pm »
There is also this possibility mired in the mix:

What if our entire notion of a university, especially as it pertains to student life and gathering and sports and atmosphere, will be modestly/significantly/completely changed in the next several years or possibly our lifetimes because of health protocols and risks? What can any university do on the sports and student life end of things before that other big thing gets figured out? Is our vision of the vibrant university, built from past experience, applicable in the future?

And certainly there will be many opinions about the virus situation and where we stand. Go to your favorite partisan news source today and you'll get all the answers you want to hear.

Truth is, we don't know, and it's possible "a university" will need to be re-imagined by taking a hard look at what it can and cannot do. With regard to the interests here, that could be a change or end to some sports, to the fan experience, even what it means to "go to" a university.

This is a good point, but I think the change you're talking about pertains to the cost of school overall, and with class time being augmented with online learning and community college is the traditional four year school with the big tuition, room and board, student debt, etc. worth it? Many already decided college was a bubble and didn't want to partake. As far as student life? I think that will bounce back. It's not like people will never go to a bar or congregate ever again just because of a once in 100 year virus.  I expect things to come back. Will take a couple years, but they'll come back. 

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Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
« Reply #134 on: July 24, 2020, 07:47:30 pm »
https://stonybrookathletics.com/news/2020/7/23/together-we-transform-blog-together-we-transform-thursday-july-23-2020.aspx

Quote
Ultimately the myriad complexities proved to be too difficult to overcome, leading to the difficult decision to postpone fall sports to the spring.
 
Chief among those complexities is travel. Almost half of our scheduled football opponents (Florida Atlantic, Towson, Richmond, Delaware and William & Mary) are in states that require a 14-day self-quarantine when traveling to New York. We would have had to scramble to find opponents, a situation made all the more complicated with potential regional opponents from the Patriot and Ivy Leagues taken off of the board due to their earlier decisions to postpone fall sports.

As part of our budget planning, we asked each head coach to identify cost savings that could contribute to our overall savings plan. That process resulted in trips canceled, scholarships saved, positions left unfilled and equipment purchases curtailed. Our head coaches deserve tremendous credit for their understanding and willingness to seek solutions in support of the department's fiscal needs.

In the America East, sport-specific task forces were created to examine scheduling scenarios that would ensure more regional contests and less travel. The CAA went so far as to create six potential schedules, including one that had each team playing a home-and-home series against four conference opponents. Imagine having two bites at the Golden Apple in one season!
 
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